posted on May 1, 2012
Looking for info on Mary Cloud
posted on May 1, 2012
you must be directly descended from an original enrollee, in order to enroll. this is a common rule among native tribes. the list of original enrollees is a permanent record.
in your family, who was alive 1896-1906 or so? were your relatives living in oklahoma/indian territory or elsewhere?
do you have census records for 1880, 1900, 1910, 1920, 1930?
if your family lived in texas, they did not go on the trail of tears in the late 1830’s, but there were many unofficial migrations to/through texas.
look where your family lived. are there tribes around that area 1880-1930 or so? since i don’t know where your family lived 1880-1930, i can only give you general information, not specific to your family.
genealogists use names, dates, locations, children and spouses to match records. if you have a common surname, you need to give more information rather than less. if you post about women, it is helpful to include the maiden name and the married name and designate which one is the maiden name.
start with what you know, gather documentation, then you can go backward in time. so get your birth certificate, your parents’ birth certificates and marriage license and then you can start on your grandparents. if someone passed away after 1/1/1937, they probably have a social security application on file. if you ask a government agency for a birth certificate, and they were born before 1929, they might have submitted a delayed birth certificate. death certificates, cemetery information and obituaries are helpful. you can usually get a copy of an obituary, newspaper mentions such as birth of a child or marriage, through the interlibrary loan program – see your local public library for this. i usually start with the death and work toward the person’s birth. military records and pension records can be helpful. census records can tell you where they were at particular times, names of family members. the census records up to 1930 are available, although the 1890 census was largely destroyed. the 1940 census will be public information in 2012.
obituaries through the oklahoma choctaw tribe is through the history link for the tribe:
social security application for a deceased person:
your public library probably has a subscription to heritage quest and ancestry.com. fold3.com is another useful database for native records and military records, but they are a subscription. however, many times their month’s subscription price is less than the price of a dawes packet, however check with accessgenealogy’s database to see if your relative’s dawes packet is exists or is available at fold3.
partial names are allowed.
bear in mind that many records are not online. always collect documents, as just the reference to a relative in an index informs you that a document is available.
death certificate: state vital records or if very old, state archives. ask for the person’s name at the time of death. you can look at death indices, such as the social security death index 1964-present for a date of death on rootsweb.com or ancestry.com.
obituary: see your local public library, interlibrary loan program. ask for the person’s name at the time of death. approximate date of death is helpful. if old, state historical society or state archives might have historical newspapers.
cemetery record: try findagrave.com or interment.net. ask for the person’s name at the time of death. if you find a relative, you can click on the county or cemetery to see if others with the same surname are buried there.
state vital records office, county clerk or if old, state archives or state historical society.
state vital records office, or if old, state archives or state historical society. if the birth was before 1940, ask for a birth certificate or a delayed birth certificate. many people had to get delayed birth certificates when social security came into effect because they had to show proof of age. this will be under the name used at the time of birth.
you will want to search for census records 1940 on down to the birth of your relative. the federal census was taken every 10 years, however the 1890 census was largely destroyed by fire. there are also some state census records and native census records and native rolls. ancestry.com and heritage quest are two databases that include many census records. many native census records kept by NARA (http://www.archives.gov) are transcribed at accessgenealogy.
first of all, heritage and tribal enrollment are two different things. many times natives didn’t apply for enrollment because 1) they didn’t qualify, 2) they were philosophically opposed to enrollment, 3) they didn’t have documentation, or 4) they were mississippi choctaw and their ancestor had accepted land or benefits in lieu of tribal enrollment.
the dawes roll was taken 1896-1906, so you should trace your ancestors down to that time period. mostly, they had to be living in oklahoma by that time and agree to live there permanently.
history of the dawes roll
wikipedia entries are sometimes opinionated; entered by volunteers.
helpful information about tribal enrollment
2 ways to search:
this will let you enter partial names to get card#. click on the card# in the card column and you can see other names in that family.
other resources on the left and at the bottom of this webpage. native census records and databases are especially useful.
this will give you card# (family group) and enrollment #. they have some native marriage records too. other oklahoma records listed at left.
if your relative was enrolled by court action, their name might not be on this list.
if the name is common, you may find too many possible records.
you can order the dawes packet from the oklahoma historical society website.
if you find a relative listed on the dawes roll, fold3 may have filmed the record and could be available online.
other resources are NARA http://www.archives.gov
the five civilized tribes book put out by the department of the interior has testimony.
and you can read it online
and these are the microfilms at fort worth TX archives.
there may be additional records about your relative:
contact NARA http://www.archives.gov for these and other records listed on this webpage.
75.23 RECORDS OF THE COMMISSIONER TO THE FIVE CIVILIZED TRIBES 1852-1919
75.23.1 Records of the Dawes Commission
75.23.2 Records of the U.S. Indian Inspector for Indian Territory
75.23.3 General records of the Commissioner to the Five Civilized Tribes
(Record Group 75)
oklahoma newspaper and archives search. some of these resources may be available through interlibrary loan/public library.
the tribe has an excellent information to help you. it is found under genealogy advocacy.
NARA http://www.archives.gov/ federal records repository. the fort worth, TX office has archives for oklahoma and texas tribes. atlanta/morrow office has archives for the southwest tribes. many offices have microfilmed records for several tribes. note that this web address has changed recently from nara.gov.
You can ONLY apply for Choctaw Nation Membership, AFTER you have obtained a CDIB card proving your Choctaw Blood lineage to a direct ancestor who actually enrolled, BY BLOOD. Freedmen DID NOT enroll By Blood. When US Congress closed the Final Dawes Commission Rolls, there were no provisions granting Freedmen any benefits after the Dawes Commission closed. The tribe Constitution states BY BLOOD. however, the documents (application, census card and testimony) may help you find out more about your heritage.
mississippi choctaw and choctaw tribe explained here:
jena choctaw tribe in louisiana:
MOWA Band Of Choctaws Wilford Taylor 1080 Red Fox Road Mount Vernon, AL 36560 (251) 829-5500. E-Mail: firstname.lastname@example.org
other choctaw tribes:
chickasaw historical society
Historic Preservation and Repatriation Office
Phone: (580) 272-5325
Fax: (580) 272-5327
2020 E. Arlington, Suite 4, Ada, OK 74820
send mail to: P.O. Box 1548, Ada, OK 74821
Chickasaw Nation Headquarters
520 East Arlington, Ada, OK 74820
Phone (580) 436-2603
Mailing address: P.O. Box 1548, Ada, OK 74821
chickasaw genealogy archive center Tribal Library
Phone: (580) 310-6477
Fax: (580) 559-0773
1003 Chamber Loop, Ada, OK 74820
send mail to: P.O. Box 1548, Ada, OK 74821
oklahoma historical society
other historical societies:
some oklahoma genealogical societies:
some links for the choctaw.
i looked at the land records and those need a lot of work. i have no information about whether or when they will improve some of these categories.
types of records available for native americans:
pages 366-369 in particular although the entire native american chapter is helpful.
The Genealogist’s Companion and Sourcebook:
Guide to the Resources You Need for Unpuzzling Your Past
Emily Anne Croom
you can ask for these particular pages from your local public library. if they don’t have the book, you can get the pages through the interlibrary loan program.
native american records are discussed in pages 352-386.
Tracing ancestors among the Five Civilized Tribes: Southeastern Indians …
By Rachal Mills Lennon
this book could be accessed through the interlibary loan program also.
always find the state archives. some records are online, some records are not. but many times you can find a record not found in other places. you want to see also about newspaper mentions for obituaries, births, marriages in particular.
check courts for probate, civil and criminal cases, marriage records.
if your ancestors lived on a reservation, they might not appear on a federal census because they were not taxed.
1860 census, indian territory.
this book is a good read about the dawes roll and how they implemented it.
The Dawes Commission and the allotment of the Five Civilized Tribes, 1893-1914
By Kent Carter
and you can read this book online. your relatives’ testimony might be in the book.
see the menu at left. you can download it.
there are 63 tribes in oklahoma but only the five major tribes are on the dawes roll. look at your family’s location around 1900-1930 time period (census will help you there) and see if there was a tribe located nearby. it is possible that your relatives were affiliated with another tribe.
if they were mississippi choctaw, there is probably a land grant in MS/AL to a head of household called choctaw scrip land. this was given in lieu of tribal enrollment 1830-1880 time period. ancestry.com has a database of the MS and AL choctaw scrip land records, called mississippi or alabama land records. there are other land records in those databases too,, so you have to look at the authority/source cited. NARA http://www.archives.gov has those land record packages.
the mississippi choctaw was not removed from oklahoma. but they were largely rejected for tribal enrollment.
this website might help you in your search. some people are trying to transcribe applications.
i do not know what they are trying to transcribe, but this is the volunteer page
and this might be of interest to you:
Rights of Mississippi Choctaws in the Choctaw Nation
Index to the Final Rolls of the Citizens and Freedmen of the Five Civilized Tribes in Indian Territory
the dawes roll is composed of applications to the five major tribes in oklahoma.
good advice about native research:
if your relatives came from a different geographic location or belonged to a different tribe, try searching google for the state and tribes. you might find a contact for a state-recognized tribe or a federal recognized tribe.
this page can help you set up a targeted google search.
penny postcards. this is a website that features pictures that were on postcards. click on the state to see the postcards that they have.
if you have a penny postcard, you can click on submissions to add your penny postcard to the collection.
these searches will combine several possible search terms and give you the best matches.
i have collected many resources over the years. if you want to write to me, email@example.com and request the choctaw resource list, i will be glad to send it to you.
i am just a volunteer that wants to empower people to learn how to do genealogy.
suzanne hamlet shatto
posted on May 1, 2012
Thank you Suzanne for the reply It would have been Minnie Ola (Lusk) robinson. Born 1881 and died 1962. She was half Pawnee and her great grandma was Choctaw. Mary Cloud (Cloud was our Choctaw family name).She told very little about who we were and only knew we were Choctaw and not certain about our Pawnee blood since her mom was adopted. We didn’t find out we were Pawnee until later, going through historical research. She was born in Whitt, Texas. I don’t know if she went to Oklahoma or not. Her mom did come from Oklahoma though… I can try the Dawes roll again but, I haven’t had much luck. The tribe can’t link any of Mary Clouds relatives to me for enrollment?
posted on May 2, 2012
mary cloud is too far back in time. you have to let go of that one. natives had an oral traditions and didn’t keep any records. the only possible records are:
NARA, national archives and records administration. this is the repository of the records from the war department 1800-1930 or so. there are transcriptions from many of them on accessgenealogy.com. see the dawes roll link and look on the left side of the webpage. native databases and rolls and native census records will be most useful to you. the problem you will have with this is that many early records were transliterated. this means that spelling could vary and it might be difficult to find your relative if they were listed under a native name.
historical newspapers and local history books. you might be able to get access through your local public library. state historical societies or state archives usually have some of these issues.
trading post logs. these show up in various places. try state archives and state historical society.
as far as your family: if your relative, minnie ola (lusk) robinson b. 1881 TX, she is probably not oklahoma choctaw. you said that her mother was born in oklahoma? who was her mother? is lusk the maiden name?
no mention if she ever lived in oklahoma. no mention of her spouse’s name or childrens’ names. these are common names and you need more information, rather than less.
what documents do you already have?
do you have census records 1900, 1910, 1920, 1930? were her parents in the 1880 census?
i want to dispel one idea you have. no, the tribe cannot link you to mary cloud. the tribe has no records, other than the records from enrollment 1896-1906 and later. they would have no mary cloud records, because she was born in the 1700’s, when there was no written native language. native languages only became written traditions later, around the mid 1800’s.
if minnie ola lusk robinson is not listed on the dawes roll 1896-1906, then she probably did not apply for enrollment. was she living in oklahoma 1900, according to the census? if she was living elsewhere, she probably didn’t apply to an oklahoma tribe.
there are 63 tribes in oklahoma. the dawes roll only lists applicants to the five major tribes of oklahoma 1896-1906. there are tribes in texas and elsewhere. you should look where your relatives lived 1830-1930 and see if there were tribes near where your family lived.
the only lusk surnames on the dawes roll are cherokee.
Total Records: 5 Tribe Last First Middle Age Sex Blood Card Roll Misc Type
Cherokee Lusk Catherine 0 F 3985 P
Cherokee Lusk Catherine 0 F IW36 P
Cherokee Lusk Robert 0 M 3985 P
Cherokee Lusk Robert 0 M IW36 P
iw=intermarried white, a general nontribal description
if you see a likely person, click on the # in the card column to see the family group.
if you think you found a family group, get access to the dawes application packet. see my first post about how to do that.
this is a family group with a minnie robinson:
Dawes Card Information
tribe last first middle age sex blood card roll misc type
Choctaw Impson Jane 0 F 3165 P
Choctaw Impson Josiah 0 M 3165 P
Choctaw Robinson Jane 0 F 3165 P
Choctaw Robinson N C 0 M 3165 P
Choctaw Robinson Mary Esther 1 F 1/4 3165 NR HARTSHORNE BB
Choctaw Robinson Rosa A 2 F 1/4 3165 NR HARTSHORNE BB
Choctaw Robinson Charles J 5 M 1/4 3165 NR HARTSHORNE BB
Choctaw Robinson Teresa 7 F 1/4 3165 NR HARTSHORNE BB
Choctaw Robinson Josiah 10 M 1/4 3165 NR HARTSHORNE BB
Choctaw Robinson Minnie 13 F 1/4 3165 NR HARTSHORNE BB
Choctaw Robinson Jane 34 F 1/2 3165 NR HARTSHORNE BB
Choctaw Robinson John W 52 M IW 3165 NR HARTSHORNE BB
but minnie is 13.
i don’t know if this is your relative, because you give no information about her parents.
is this your relative?
1900 United States Federal Census about Minnie O Robinson
Name: Minnie O Robinson
Birth Date: Oct 1888
Home in 1900: Justice Precinct 6, De Witt, Texas
Relation to Head of House: Daughter
Marital Status: Single
Father’s Name: Stephen Robinson
Father’s Birthplace: Texas
Mother’s Birthplace: Texas
Occupation: View on Image
Neighbors: View others on page
Stephen Robinson 38
Minnie O Robinson 11
George A Robinson 9
Emma Hargrove 37
George Hargrove 12
Source Citation: Year: 1900; Census Place: Justice Precinct 6, De Witt, Texas; Roll: 1628; Page: 27B; Enumeration District: 33; FHL microfilm: 1241628.
there are MANY mary robinson or mary lusk records. there are 52 living in texas alone. how would i know which one might be your relative?
i usually start with the death, gather records, then i can go backward in time to the parents’ generation.
if you cannot find your relative on the dawes roll
posted on May 2, 2012
Thanks again for the replies. Minnie Ola’s maiden name was lusk. Her mother Lavina (Lavinia) Lusk was born in Oklahoma. She was full blood Pawnee but, her Pawnee name was unknown since she was adopted by whites and no record was made since during that time, they lost their new born, the original Lavina lusk. So, they picked up the Pawnee baby from a dying mother and a pleading father.Lavina lived with other ndns from North Texas and did not go through the boarding schools that tortured so many. As an adult she was accused of being a “Sun” worshiper. She grew up knowing Native religion. This was similar to what the Pawnee believed anyhow. I don’t think Minnie Ola ever applied or enrolled in the Dawes roll. You can find Thomas Robinson and Mary Cloud but, thats under the Creek (Muskogee) roll and the time period is off. There are some records somewhere about my Mary Cloud. My cousin is a historian and also a former Marine combat vet. Only him and I are pursing this. Minnie Ola did look Indian. She had dark skin are dark hair, kinda curly. I myself am also asian Indian(1/4), the Kui Khond tribe of east India. Kinda ironic. But, that doesn’t help me with what I am trying to do here. My purpose for this is to be able to adopt native orphans. And most tribes require you to be enrolled with a tribe to do that and I understand why. Even Minnie Ola’s dad, William Robinson, born in Kentucky looked Indian and he was something like 1/8th or 1/4. I Can remember. They say he was a black scott. Its kinda hard to see in black and white photos. But, He is Mary Clouds grandson or Great Grandson. He died young, just before the roll went into play. I wonder if there is anywhere else to turn. Thank you again.
posted on May 2, 2012
1) the pawnee tribe was not on the dawes roll. there is no mention of which pawnee tribe she might have been connected with.
is it this one?
you are looking for common names. this is why you might be “finding” them on the dawes roll. the dawes roll was taken 1896-1906 in oklahoma/indian territory. oklahoma became a state in 1907, and before that was known as indian territory. there are 63 tribes in oklahoma. but the dawes roll only gives the names of the applicants to the five major tribes.
you are giving a lot of information but nothing really helps. maybe a more organized approach might help.
maybe you need to start here.
who was on the 1900 census. where did they live. who was in the household.
posted on October 27
David we are relatives. I would love to get with you to see if I can get more facts.. I will attach a will in case you don’t have it.. For me it only caused more confusion. lolI just had a new cousin give me information on my Robinson family. He gave me the names of John and Mary Cloud.
JOHN ROBINSON He married Mary Cloud in 1750 in North Carolina.
Note: The grandchildren of John & Mary Robinson claimed that Mary Nee Cloud was full blooded Mississippi Choctaw Indian (Source: Applications for Enrollment of the Commission to the Five Civilized Tribes, 1898-1914)
Son Thomas Robinson B.1 May 1773 • North Carolina Death 19 Aug 1839 • London, Laurel, Kentucky,age 65
He married Mary Polly McNeill Nov. 27, 1806. She was born on July 14, 1781 in Harrodsburg, Mercer Co., Kentucky. She died on April.17 1853 in London, Laurel County, Kentucky.
I had only gotten as far as a Joseph P Robinson . I have just now started research for John R. and so far have only seen the one child Thomas mentioned anywhere.
I do see we do have some problems with the lineage.
- is my direct downline
*Thos/Thomas P. Robinson b.1816 From 1860: My Division, Jackson, Kentucky census. 2nd Wife Elizabeth Cook age 32. 1st wife was Mary Polly McNeill Nov. 27, 1806.. She was born on July 14, 1781 in Harrodsburg, Mercer Co., Kentucky. She died on April.17 1853 in London, Laurel County, Kentucky.
CHILDREN ages and birth dates were figured from this census.
- Susan Robinson age 16/ 1844
- Mercus(?) L Robinson 14 /1846 ? Will for Thomas shows name as Marcus ROBINSON
- Eliza L Robinson age12 / 1848
*-Joseph William Robinson age 6 b Aug 1855 KY (Great Grandfather) Mom’s records show: born 8-23-1855 in Ky . d. 3-08-1923 Dutton Ark. m. Nancy J. Taylor b 1862 – father Henry “Speed” Taylor mother ELEANOR “ELLEN” YADEN
- Elizabeth Robinson age4 / 1856
- John F Robinson age1 / 1859
- Martha Francis Robinson b1861 married Thomas F. Taylor
b. 09 Jul 1859 TN
- Mary “Polly” A. ROBINSON (abt 1838-) . . d. after Sep
- STEWART Levi ROBINSON (abt 1841-) . . THIS IS THE ONLY TIME I HAVE SEEN THE NAME LEVI AS ONE OF THE CHILDREN.
- Henry H. ROBINSON (Apr 1843-) . . . .
- Sarah Ann ROBINSON (1845/46- 5 Jan 1938) .
- Lawson Alexander ROBINSON (11 Apr 1849-8 d.Jan 19 1946) .
- L. Frances ROBINSON (abt 1852-)
posted on October 27
I don’t have a clue why I am getting an error message that the file might be harmful so I am just going to paste the info here.. If you have this just disregard.
Court Records Index
Submitted by Rick Giirtman
Source: Will Book 1, page 156
In the name of God Amen.
I Thomas Robinson a Citizen of Laurel County & State of Kentucky being advanced in age but of sound mind and memory and knowing that all men must die, Doth make constitute & ordain this my last Will & Testament.
First I commit my Soul & body to that great beneficient Being who bestowed With gratitude & thankfulness for the many blessings _______. I request my Just debts to be faithfully paid out of my estate. I give to Mary Robinson my beloved Wife the tract of land on which I now live in Laurel County containing 200 acres with all it’s improvements and advantages during her life and after death I give and bequeath the said tract of land to my nine children. (To wit) (Jane Lillon (? or Jane Sutton?), Mary Murphy, John Robinson, Martha(?) Wyatt, Thomas Robinson, Jonathan M(? or W.?) Robinson, William Robinson, James M. Robinson, and Marcus L(? or S.?) Robinson) to be sold by them and the purchase money equally divided. I further direct my executors hereafter to be appointed that if Mary Robinson my wife Should wish to Move from said *asin? before allowed to(?) her they my executors with her consent may if they think proper Sell and Convey the before named 200 acres of land with all the appertenances thereunto belonging for the best price to be made for the same. And the money _____ _____ my Executors are directed to lay out two thirds of it for land in Some new Settlement, and one third to be put in improvements on said land. Which land and improvements is to be for the use and benefit of Mary Robinson my Wife during her life. And after her death it is the property of the above named legatees to be devided as above directed. I further give to Mary Robinson my Wife, the crop of all sorts that is made on my farm the present Season. Also a sufficiency of meat to be taken out of my Stock for the Support of my family the ensuing year. I give to my Son Thomas Robinson three hogs to follow for his own use. I give to my son William Robinson one Colt claimed by him as his Own property. Also I give to my Son James M. Robinson, one Colt claimed by him as his own property. Also I give to my Son Marcus L. Robinson, my saddle and saddle bags as his own property. I also give my Son John Robinson Ten dollars. I also give to Mary Robinson my wife one third part of my personal estate (after taking out that part of my estate before given by this Will) for her own proper use and benefit during her life and after her death, if any of said property be left to be devided equal amongst my legatees before named. My wife to take her part _____ this by appraisement, ____sale(?) I also allow the other two thirds of my personal estate together with my land not before named in this Will to be sold by my executors on a credit and my executors to Convey the _____ to the purchase of said land to be equally divided to the before named legatees. I also appoint my two Sons John Robinson and James M. Robinson, my executors with a request they shall See this My Will faithfully executed and carried into effect. I further request that the Court require No security of my executors but that they enter into bond with out security. In Testimony where of I assign this with my hand and affix my seal as my last will and testament this 30th day of July 1839.
Thos. Robinson – Seal
Robert Owens -his mark
Caleb(?) Sutton (? or Litton?)
Laurel County Court October Term 1839
A paper purporting to be the last Will and Testament of Thomas Robinson dec’d. was this day produced in Court and proven by the oath of Robert Owens and Caleb Sitton(?) two of the subscribing witnesses thereto to be the act and deed of the said Robinson. It was also proven by the Witnesses aforesaid that at the time the testator signed sealed and acknowledged said Will he was of sound mind and disposing memory.
It is therefore ordered by the Court that the Same be admitted to record as the last Will and Testament of the said Thomas Robinson dec’d which is done accordingly.Att. W. H. R a n d a l l Clk.