Choctaw Nation of Oklahoma

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Looking for info on Mary Cloud

David David

posted on May 1, 2012

My great grandmother(not sure to what degree) was full blood Choctaw. She was born in North Carolina in 1750. There are no recorded siblings.She married a guy named John Robinson. Her son was Thomas Robinson(half blood). I can trace myself back to her directly but, don’t know if anyone from her to me or directly related to her enrolled. Her grandson, William Robinson moved from North Carolina to Kentucky and died in Texas after living 30 something years. He did marry my other great grandparent that was full blood Pawnee but, adopted from a dying Pawnee woman around 1860’s and no record was made of it. I know I am Choctaw and Pawnee. It seems I have a better chance of proving my Choctaw blood than Pawnee, since I only have official records coming from Mary Cloud, that was recorded as being full blood Choctaw. But, since the Dawes roll didn’t take place until the late 1890’s, I can’t figure out how to be able to enroll unless I can find a relative that is enrolled. I know on the rez there are several prominant family names and that they are all related and can trace things back pretty far. I would imagine that the Choctaw Nation would have some record of this. If needed I can get more detailed info on dates and names of places. I wish to be able to enroll but, no one in my family knows anything about this stuff. I appreciate any help.

suzanne hamlet shatto suzanne hamlet shatto

posted on May 1, 2012

you must be directly descended from an original enrollee, in order to enroll. this is a common rule among native tribes. the list of original enrollees is a permanent record.

in your family, who was alive 1896-1906 or so? were your relatives living in oklahoma/indian territory or elsewhere?
http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/finalroll.php

do you have census records for 1880, 1900, 1910, 1920, 1930?

if your family lived in texas, they did not go on the trail of tears in the late 1830’s, but there were many unofficial migrations to/through texas.

look where your family lived. are there tribes around that area 1880-1930 or so? since i don’t know where your family lived 1880-1930, i can only give you general information, not specific to your family.

genealogists use names, dates, locations, children and spouses to match records. if you have a common surname, you need to give more information rather than less. if you post about women, it is helpful to include the maiden name and the married name and designate which one is the maiden name.

start with what you know, gather documentation, then you can go backward in time. so get your birth certificate, your parents’ birth certificates and marriage license and then you can start on your grandparents. if someone passed away after 1/1/1937, they probably have a social security application on file. if you ask a government agency for a birth certificate, and they were born before 1929, they might have submitted a delayed birth certificate. death certificates, cemetery information and obituaries are helpful. you can usually get a copy of an obituary, newspaper mentions such as birth of a child or marriage, through the interlibrary loan program – see your local public library for this. i usually start with the death and work toward the person’s birth. military records and pension records can be helpful. census records can tell you where they were at particular times, names of family members. the census records up to 1930 are available, although the 1890 census was largely destroyed. the 1940 census will be public information in 2012.

obituaries through the oklahoma choctaw tribe is through the history link for the tribe:
http://www.choctawnation.com/history/

social security application for a deceased person:
http://www.ssa.gov/foia/html/foia_guide.htm
form SS-5.

your public library probably has a subscription to heritage quest and ancestry.com. fold3.com is another useful database for native records and military records, but they are a subscription. however, many times their month’s subscription price is less than the price of a dawes packet, however check with accessgenealogy’s database to see if your relative’s dawes packet is exists or is available at fold3.
http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/dawes.php?s_last=green&s_first=mart&s_middle=&s_tribe=
partial names are allowed.

bear in mind that many records are not online. always collect documents, as just the reference to a relative in an index informs you that a document is available.

death records:
death certificate: state vital records or if very old, state archives. ask for the person’s name at the time of death. you can look at death indices, such as the social security death index 1964-present for a date of death on rootsweb.com or ancestry.com.
obituary: see your local public library, interlibrary loan program. ask for the person’s name at the time of death. approximate date of death is helpful. if old, state historical society or state archives might have historical newspapers.
cemetery record: try findagrave.com or interment.net. ask for the person’s name at the time of death. if you find a relative, you can click on the county or cemetery to see if others with the same surname are buried there.

marriage records:
state vital records office, county clerk or if old, state archives or state historical society.

birth records:
state vital records office, or if old, state archives or state historical society. if the birth was before 1940, ask for a birth certificate or a delayed birth certificate. many people had to get delayed birth certificates when social security came into effect because they had to show proof of age. this will be under the name used at the time of birth.

census records:
you will want to search for census records 1940 on down to the birth of your relative. the federal census was taken every 10 years, however the 1890 census was largely destroyed by fire. there are also some state census records and native census records and native rolls. ancestry.com and heritage quest are two databases that include many census records. many native census records kept by NARA (http://www.archives.gov) are transcribed at accessgenealogy.

first of all, heritage and tribal enrollment are two different things. many times natives didn’t apply for enrollment because 1) they didn’t qualify, 2) they were philosophically opposed to enrollment, 3) they didn’t have documentation, or 4) they were mississippi choctaw and their ancestor had accepted land or benefits in lieu of tribal enrollment.

the dawes roll was taken 1896-1906, so you should trace your ancestors down to that time period. mostly, they had to be living in oklahoma by that time and agree to live there permanently.

history of the dawes roll
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dawes_Act
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dawes_Commission
wikipedia entries are sometimes opinionated; entered by volunteers.

helpful information about tribal enrollment
http://www.felihkatubbe.com/ChoctawNation/TribalMembership.html

2 ways to search:
http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/finalroll.php
this will let you enter partial names to get card#. click on the card# in the card column and you can see other names in that family.
other resources on the left and at the bottom of this webpage. native census records and databases are especially useful.

http://www.okhistory.org/research/dawes/index.php
this will give you card# (family group) and enrollment #. they have some native marriage records too. other oklahoma records listed at left.
if your relative was enrolled by court action, their name might not be on this list.
if the name is common, you may find too many possible records.
you can order the dawes packet from the oklahoma historical society website.

if you find a relative listed on the dawes roll, fold3 may have filmed the record and could be available online.
http://www.fold3.com/documents/46580455/dawes-packets/
other resources are NARA http://www.archives.gov

the five civilized tribes book put out by the department of the interior has testimony.
http://books.google.com/books/about/Five_civilized_tribes_in_Oklahoma.html?id=chATAAAAYAAJ
and you can read it online

and these are the microfilms at fort worth TX archives.
http://www.archives.gov/southwest/finding-aids/native-american-microfilm.html

there may be additional records about your relative:
contact NARA http://www.archives.gov for these and other records listed on this webpage.

75.23 RECORDS OF THE COMMISSIONER TO THE FIVE CIVILIZED TRIBES 1852-1919
75.23.1 Records of the Dawes Commission
75.23.2 Records of the U.S. Indian Inspector for Indian Territory
75.23.3 General records of the Commissioner to the Five Civilized Tribes
http://www.archives.gov/research/guide-fed-records/groups/075.html
(Record Group 75)
1793-1989

http://okhistory.cuadra.com/star/public.html
oklahoma newspaper and archives search. some of these resources may be available through interlibrary loan/public library.

the tribe has an excellent information to help you. it is found under genealogy advocacy.
http://choctawnation.com/services/departments/community-services/
some obituaries:
http://www.choctawnation.com/history/obituaries/

NARA http://www.archives.gov/ federal records repository. the fort worth, TX office has archives for oklahoma and texas tribes. atlanta/morrow office has archives for the southwest tribes. many offices have microfilmed records for several tribes. note that this web address has changed recently from nara.gov.

freedmen info:
You can ONLY apply for Choctaw Nation Membership, AFTER you have obtained a CDIB card proving your Choctaw Blood lineage to a direct ancestor who actually enrolled, BY BLOOD. Freedmen DID NOT enroll By Blood. When US Congress closed the Final Dawes Commission Rolls, there were no provisions granting Freedmen any benefits after the Dawes Commission closed. The tribe Constitution states BY BLOOD. however, the documents (application, census card and testimony) may help you find out more about your heritage.

mississippi choctaw and choctaw tribe explained here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choctaw_Trail_of_Tears
http://www.choctaw.org/

jena choctaw tribe in louisiana:
http://www.jenachoctaw.org/

MOWA tribe
http://encyclopediaofalabama.org/face/Article.jsp?id=h-1368
http://www.uab.edu/uabmagazine/2009/july/losttribe
http://www.native-american-online.org/MOWA-Choctaw.htm
MOWA Band Of Choctaws Wilford Taylor 1080 Red Fox Road Mount Vernon, AL 36560 (251) 829-5500. E-Mail: chieftaylor@mowachoctaw.com

other choctaw tribes:
http://www.aaanativearts.com/choctaw-indians/index.html

chickasaw historical society
Historic Preservation and Repatriation Office
Phone: (580) 272-5325
Fax: (580) 272-5327
2020 E. Arlington, Suite 4, Ada, OK 74820
send mail to: P.O. Box 1548, Ada, OK 74821

chickasaw tribe
Chickasaw Nation Headquarters
520 East Arlington, Ada, OK 74820
Phone (580) 436-2603
Mailing address: P.O. Box 1548, Ada, OK 74821
http://www.chickasaw.net/index.htm

chickasaw genealogy archive center Tribal Library
Phone: (580) 310-6477
Fax: (580) 559-0773
1003 Chamber Loop, Ada, OK 74820
send mail to: P.O. Box 1548, Ada, OK 74821

http://www.okhistory.org/
oklahoma historical society
marriage records
http://www.okhistory.org/research/library/marriage.html
http://www.okgenweb.org/~okgarvin/kinard/chocmarriageindex.htm

other historical societies:
http://www.daddezio.com/society/hill/SH-OK-NDX.html
some oklahoma genealogical societies:
http://www.censusfinder.com/oklahoma-genealogy-society.htm
http://www.geneasearch.com/societies/socokla.htm

texas tribes
http://www.native-languages.org/texas.htm
http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/texas/index.htm
http://www.texasindians.com/
http://www.texasindians.com/
http://www.lsjunction.com/places/indians.htm

oklahoma tribes:
http://500nations.com/Oklahoma_Tribes.asp
http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/oklahoma/index.htm
http://www.cowboy.net/native/tribes.html

some links for the choctaw.
http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/tribes/choctaw/index.htm
i looked at the land records and those need a lot of work. i have no information about whether or when they will improve some of these categories.

types of records available for native americans:
pages 366-369 in particular although the entire native american chapter is helpful.
The Genealogist’s Companion and Sourcebook:
Guide to the Resources You Need for Unpuzzling Your Past
Emily Anne Croom
you can ask for these particular pages from your local public library. if they don’t have the book, you can get the pages through the interlibrary loan program.
native american records are discussed in pages 352-386.

Tracing ancestors among the Five Civilized Tribes: Southeastern Indians …
By Rachal Mills Lennon
this book could be accessed through the interlibary loan program also.

always find the state archives. some records are online, some records are not. but many times you can find a record not found in other places. you want to see also about newspaper mentions for obituaries, births, marriages in particular.

check courts for probate, civil and criminal cases, marriage records.

if your ancestors lived on a reservation, they might not appear on a federal census because they were not taxed.
http://www.okgenweb.org/~okgarvin/kinard/1860index.htm
1860 census, indian territory.

this book is a good read about the dawes roll and how they implemented it.
The Dawes Commission and the allotment of the Five Civilized Tribes, 1893-1914
By Kent Carter
and you can read this book online. your relatives’ testimony might be in the book.
http://www.archive.org/details/fivecivilizedtr00statgoog
see the menu at left. you can download it.

you should look at the enrollment application, census card and testimony. this post will tell you how to do that. these documents will tell you more about your heritage, but it won’t help you if your goal is to be enrolled in the choctaw tribe of oklahoma. some people were classed as mississippi choctaw if the family had a native heritage but didn’t qualify for enrollment in the tribe.

there are 63 tribes in oklahoma but only the five major tribes are on the dawes roll. look at your family’s location around 1900-1930 time period (census will help you there) and see if there was a tribe located nearby. it is possible that your relatives were affiliated with another tribe.

if they were mississippi choctaw, there is probably a land grant in MS/AL to a head of household called choctaw scrip land. this was given in lieu of tribal enrollment 1830-1880 time period. ancestry.com has a database of the MS and AL choctaw scrip land records, called mississippi or alabama land records. there are other land records in those databases too,, so you have to look at the authority/source cited. NARA http://www.archives.gov has those land record packages.

the mississippi choctaw was not removed from oklahoma. but they were largely rejected for tribal enrollment.

this website might help you in your search. some people are trying to transcribe applications.
http://www.us-census.org/native/choctaw_dawes.html
i do not know what they are trying to transcribe, but this is the volunteer page
http://www.us-census.org/states/graphics/status.htm

and this might be of interest to you:
http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/choctaw/rights-of-choctaws.htm
Rights of Mississippi Choctaws in the Choctaw Nation

http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/finalrolls/
Index to the Final Rolls of the Citizens and Freedmen of the Five Civilized Tribes in Indian Territory
the dawes roll is composed of applications to the five major tribes in oklahoma.

good advice about native research:
http://jenniferhsrn2.homestead.com/research2.html

if your relatives came from a different geographic location or belonged to a different tribe, try searching google for the state and tribes. you might find a contact for a state-recognized tribe or a federal recognized tribe.

this page can help you set up a targeted google search.
http://www.searchforancestors.com/google/searcher.html

penny postcards. this is a website that features pictures that were on postcards. click on the state to see the postcards that they have.
http://www.usgwarchives.org/special/ppcs/ppcs.html
if you have a penny postcard, you can click on submissions to add your penny postcard to the collection.

these searches will combine several possible search terms and give you the best matches.

i have collected many resources over the years. if you want to write to me, shamlet76@gmail.com and request the choctaw resource list, i will be glad to send it to you.

i am just a volunteer that wants to empower people to learn how to do genealogy.

suzanne hamlet shatto

David David

posted on May 1, 2012

Thank you Suzanne for the reply It would have been Minnie Ola (Lusk) robinson. Born 1881 and died 1962. She was half Pawnee and her great grandma was Choctaw. Mary Cloud (Cloud was our Choctaw family name).

She told very little about who we were and only knew we were Choctaw and not certain about our Pawnee blood since her mom was adopted. We didn’t find out we were Pawnee until later, going through historical research. She was born in Whitt, Texas. I don’t know if she went to Oklahoma or not. Her mom did come from Oklahoma though… I can try the Dawes roll again but, I haven’t had much luck. The tribe can’t link any of Mary Clouds relatives to me for enrollment?

suzanne hamlet shatto suzanne hamlet shatto

posted on May 2, 2012

mary cloud is too far back in time. you have to let go of that one. natives had an oral traditions and didn’t keep any records. the only possible records are:

NARA, national archives and records administration. this is the repository of the records from the war department 1800-1930 or so. there are transcriptions from many of them on accessgenealogy.com. see the dawes roll link and look on the left side of the webpage. native databases and rolls and native census records will be most useful to you. the problem you will have with this is that many early records were transliterated. this means that spelling could vary and it might be difficult to find your relative if they were listed under a native name.

historical newspapers and local history books. you might be able to get access through your local public library. state historical societies or state archives usually have some of these issues.

trading post logs. these show up in various places. try state archives and state historical society.

as far as your family: if your relative, minnie ola (lusk) robinson b. 1881 TX, she is probably not oklahoma choctaw. you said that her mother was born in oklahoma? who was her mother? is lusk the maiden name?

no mention if she ever lived in oklahoma. no mention of her spouse’s name or childrens’ names. these are common names and you need more information, rather than less.

what documents do you already have?
do you have census records 1900, 1910, 1920, 1930? were her parents in the 1880 census?

i want to dispel one idea you have. no, the tribe cannot link you to mary cloud. the tribe has no records, other than the records from enrollment 1896-1906 and later. they would have no mary cloud records, because she was born in the 1700’s, when there was no written native language. native languages only became written traditions later, around the mid 1800’s.

if minnie ola lusk robinson is not listed on the dawes roll 1896-1906, then she probably did not apply for enrollment. was she living in oklahoma 1900, according to the census? if she was living elsewhere, she probably didn’t apply to an oklahoma tribe.

there are 63 tribes in oklahoma. the dawes roll only lists applicants to the five major tribes of oklahoma 1896-1906. there are tribes in texas and elsewhere. you should look where your relatives lived 1830-1930 and see if there were tribes near where your family lived.

the only lusk surnames on the dawes roll are cherokee.
Dawes Results
Total Records: 5 Tribe Last First Middle Age Sex Blood Card Roll Misc Type
Cherokee Lusk Catherine 0 F 3985 P
Cherokee Lusk Catherine 0 F IW36 P
Cherokee Lusk Robert 0 M 3985 P
Cherokee Lusk Robert 0 M IW36 P

p=parent
bb=by blood
iw=intermarried white, a general nontribal description

if you see a likely person, click on the # in the card column to see the family group.
if you think you found a family group, get access to the dawes application packet. see my first post about how to do that.

this is a family group with a minnie robinson:
Dawes Card Information

tribe last first middle age sex blood card roll misc type
Choctaw Impson Jane 0 F 3165 P
Choctaw Impson Josiah 0 M 3165 P
Choctaw Robinson Jane 0 F 3165 P
Choctaw Robinson N C 0 M 3165 P
Choctaw Robinson Mary Esther 1 F 1/4 3165 NR HARTSHORNE BB
Choctaw Robinson Rosa A 2 F 1/4 3165 NR HARTSHORNE BB
Choctaw Robinson Charles J 5 M 1/4 3165 NR HARTSHORNE BB
Choctaw Robinson Teresa 7 F 1/4 3165 NR HARTSHORNE BB
Choctaw Robinson Josiah 10 M 1/4 3165 NR HARTSHORNE BB
Choctaw Robinson Minnie 13 F 1/4 3165 NR HARTSHORNE BB
Choctaw Robinson Jane 34 F 1/2 3165 NR HARTSHORNE BB
Choctaw Robinson John W 52 M IW 3165 NR HARTSHORNE BB

but minnie is 13.
i don’t know if this is your relative, because you give no information about her parents.

is this your relative?
1900 United States Federal Census about Minnie O Robinson
Name: Minnie O Robinson
Age: 11
Birth Date: Oct 1888
Birthplace: Texas
Home in 1900: Justice Precinct 6, De Witt, Texas
[De Witt]
Race: Black
Gender: Female
Relation to Head of House: Daughter
Marital Status: Single
Father’s Name: Stephen Robinson
Father’s Birthplace: Texas
Mother’s Birthplace: Texas
Occupation: View on Image
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Stephen Robinson 38
Minnie O Robinson 11
George A Robinson 9
Emma Hargrove 37
George Hargrove 12
Source Citation: Year: 1900; Census Place: Justice Precinct 6, De Witt, Texas; Roll: 1628; Page: 27B; Enumeration District: 33; FHL microfilm: 1241628.

there are MANY mary robinson or mary lusk records. there are 52 living in texas alone. how would i know which one might be your relative?

i usually start with the death, gather records, then i can go backward in time to the parents’ generation.

if you cannot find your relative on the dawes roll

David David

posted on May 2, 2012

Thanks again for the replies. Minnie Ola’s maiden name was lusk. Her mother Lavina (Lavinia) Lusk was born in Oklahoma. She was full blood Pawnee but, her Pawnee name was unknown since she was adopted by whites and no record was made since during that time, they lost their new born, the original Lavina lusk. So, they picked up the Pawnee baby from a dying mother and a pleading father.

Lavina lived with other ndns from North Texas and did not go through the boarding schools that tortured so many. As an adult she was accused of being a “Sun” worshiper. She grew up knowing Native religion. This was similar to what the Pawnee believed anyhow. I don’t think Minnie Ola ever applied or enrolled in the Dawes roll. You can find Thomas Robinson and Mary Cloud but, thats under the Creek (Muskogee) roll and the time period is off. There are some records somewhere about my Mary Cloud. My cousin is a historian and also a former Marine combat vet. Only him and I are pursing this. Minnie Ola did look Indian. She had dark skin are dark hair, kinda curly. I myself am also asian Indian(1/4), the Kui Khond tribe of east India. Kinda ironic. But, that doesn’t help me with what I am trying to do here. My purpose for this is to be able to adopt native orphans. And most tribes require you to be enrolled with a tribe to do that and I understand why. Even Minnie Ola’s dad, William Robinson, born in Kentucky looked Indian and he was something like 1/8th or 1/4. I Can remember. They say he was a black scott. Its kinda hard to see in black and white photos. But, He is Mary Clouds grandson or Great Grandson. He died young, just before the roll went into play. I wonder if there is anywhere else to turn. Thank you again.

suzanne hamlet shatto suzanne hamlet shatto

posted on May 2, 2012

1) the pawnee tribe was not on the dawes roll. there is no mention of which pawnee tribe she might have been connected with.

http://www.pawneenation.org/
is it this one?

you are looking for common names. this is why you might be “finding” them on the dawes roll. the dawes roll was taken 1896-1906 in oklahoma/indian territory. oklahoma became a state in 1907, and before that was known as indian territory. there are 63 tribes in oklahoma. but the dawes roll only gives the names of the applicants to the five major tribes.

you are giving a lot of information but nothing really helps. maybe a more organized approach might help.

maybe you need to start here.

who was on the 1900 census. where did they live. who was in the household.