Choctaw Nation of Oklahoma

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gertrude s walker my great grandmother

nicholas hogan nicholas hogan

posted on January 17, 2012

i found another post about her but it doesnt say much

gertrude s walker i was told was a choctaw princess she was born in 1883 she married james R hogan in 1931 kansas city missouri (i found their marriage license) they had 3 children james robert hogan the 2nd howard hogan and jack hogan my grandfather james robert hogan the 2nd married sharleen ann mcsweeney they then had my father casey hogan my uncle james hogan the 3rd my other uncle mark hogan and my aunt tamara lucky my name is nicholas hogan im trying to trace my roots back to the choctaw nation i dont know anything before my great grandparents if some one could help me out that would be great you can contact me at my email nickhogan@hotmail.com thanks

suzanne hamlet shatto suzanne hamlet shatto

posted on January 17, 2012

this post gives only a birthdate but no birthplace. this is the choctaw tribe in oklahoma’s forum. there are many tribes in many other locations, if your relative lived somewhere else. there is no information about date of death, place of death for any of these people. these are common surnames, so you have to have more information rather than less.

gertrude s. walker b. 1883 place unknown
m. james r. hoban, no dates or locations 1931 kansas city, MO
james robert hogan
howard hogan
jack hogan
no dates, locations on the children.

the marriage date and her birthdate indicate she married very late. was her maiden name walker?

the marriage license is dated 30 Jan 1931. her mother gave consent to the marriage which indicates she might be under age. she was living in clay county, MO.

you have to value little pieces of information, when you do genealogy.

clay county is in the NW corner of missouri.
http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/missouri/index.htm
http://500nations.com/tribes/Tribes_State-by-State.asp
http://www.hiddenhistory.com/page3/swsts/missour1.HTM
http://www.native-languages.org/missouri.htm

Charles Walker 46
Gertrude Walker 43
Marian Walker 20
Gertrude Walker 17
Charles Walker 14
Anne Walker 9
Source Citation: Year: 1930; Census Place: Central, St Louis, Missouri; Roll: 1225; Page: 5B; Enumeration District: 69; Image: 78.0.
i am wondering if there are two gertrude (maiden name unknown) married name walker.

Household Members:
Name Age
Charles J Walker 36
Gertrude Walker 33
Marian Walker 10
Gertrude L Walker 7
Charles M Walker 4
[4 4/12]
Maime Dixon 27
Cecil Wheeler 20
Source Citation: Year: 1920; Census Place: Webster Groves Ward 2, St Louis, Missouri; Roll: T625_946; Page: 18B; Enumeration District: 136; Image: 1064.

Name: Gertrude Zoll
Marriage Date: 28 Sep 1907
Marriage Location: Sedalia, Missouri
Spouse Name: Chas J Walker

birth record:
Name: Zoll
[Zall]
Birth Date: 28 Oct 1886
Birth County: Johnson
Birth Location: Warrensburg, MO
Race/Ethnicity: White
Gender: F (Female)
Mother’s Name: Mary Zall
Mother’s Age: 30
Father’s Name: Chas H Zall
Father’s Age: 35

Name: Gertrude Z Walker
Age in 1910: 21
Birth Year: 1889
Birthplace: Missouri
Home in 1910: Everett Ward 7, Snohomish, Washington
Race: White
Gender: Female
Relation to Head of House: Wife
Marital Status: Married
Spouse’s Name: Charles J Walker
Father’s Birthplace: Missouri
Mother’s Birthplace: Kentucky
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Charles J Walker 27
Gertrude Z Walker 21
Marian C Walker 6/12
0
Source Citation: Year: 1910; Census Place: Everett Ward 7, Snohomish, Washington; Roll: T624_1668; Page: 11A; Enumeration District: 0289; Image: 1264; FHL Number: 1375681.
charles is an attorney for a development company.

Name: Gertrude Zoll
Age: 13
Birth Date: Oct 1886
Birthplace: Missouri
Home in 1900: Sedalia Ward 4, Pettis, Missouri
[Sedalia, Pettis, Missouri]
Race: White
Gender: Female
Relation to Head of House: Daughter
Marital Status: Single
Father’s Name: Charles Zoll
Father’s Birthplace: Virginia
Mother’s Name: Mary Zoll
Mother’s Birthplace: Kentucky
Occupation: View on Image
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Charles Zoll 48
Mary Zoll 44
John Zoll 16
Gertrude Zoll 13
Kate Montgomery 76
Kate Montgomery 38
Source Citation: Year: 1900; Census Place: Sedalia Ward 4, Pettis, Missouri; Roll: T623_881; Page: 9B; Enumeration District: 114.

is the older gertrude the native?

California Death Index, 1940-1997 about Gertrude Z Walker
Name: Gertrude Z Walker
Social Security #: 550707906
Sex: Female
Birth Date: 28 Oct 1886
Birthplace: Missouri
Death Date: 4 May 1969
Death Place: Los Angeles
Mother’s Maiden Name: Montgome

so what documents do you have?

Name: Kate Montgomery
Age: 55
Birth Year: abt 1825
Birthplace: Kentucky
Home in 1880: Longwood, Pettis, Missouri
Race: White
Gender: Female
Relation to Head of House: Wife
Marital Status: Married
Spouse’s Name: John Montgomery
Father’s Birthplace: Kentucky
Mother’s Birthplace: Kentucky
Neighbors: View others on page
Occupation: Keeps House
Cannot read/write:

Blind:

Deaf and dumb:

Otherwise disabled:

Idiotic or insane:

View image
Household Members:
Name Age
John Montgomery 69
Kate Montgomery 55
Letitia Montgomery 32
John Montgomery 28
Mary K. Montgomery 23
Alex R. Montgomery 21
Jas. T. Montgomery 19
Kate R. Montgomery 17
Edith M. Montgomery 15
Source Citation: Year: 1880; Census Place: Longwood, Pettis, Missouri; Roll: 708; Family History Film: 1254708; Page: 140D; Enumeration District: 121; Image: 0537.

pettis county is in the central part of missouri.
but you can see that the family came from the eastern area, KY and TN. maybe cherokee, shawnee or another tribe.

Name: Kate Montgomery
Age in 1870: 47
Birth Year: abt 1823
Birthplace: Kentucky
Home in 1870: Sedalia, Pettis, Missouri
Race: White
Gender: Female
Post Office: Sedalia
Value of real estate: View image
Household Members:
Name Age
John Montgomery 60
Kate Montgomery 47
Letitia Montgomery 22
Lilian Montgomery 18
Mary Montgomery 15
Alex Montgomery 11
James Montgomery 10
Kate Montgomery 8
Edith Montgomery 5
Carline Montgomery 22
Jenny Montgomery 3
Source Citation: Year: 1870; Census Place: Sedalia, Pettis, Missouri; Roll: M593_797; Page: 578B; Image: 380; Family History Library Film: 552296.

Name: Cope Montgomery
Age in 1860: 35
Birth Year: abt 1825
Birthplace: Kentucky
Home in 1860: Heaths Creek, Pettis, Missouri
Gender: Female
Post Office: Longwood
Value of real estate: View image
Household Members:
Name Age
John Montgomery 49
Cope Montgomery 35
Thomas Montgomery 15
Letitia Montgomery 13
Lydia Montgomery 9
John Montgomery 7
Mary K Montgomery 4
Alex Montgomery 2
James Montgomery 7/12
Mary W Todd 40
Thos I Todd 10
Source Citation: Year: 1860; Census Place: Heaths Creek, Pettis, Missouri; Roll: M653_638; Page: 813; Image: 347; Family History Library Film: 803638.

you might look at the missouri archives and see if you can come up with a birth record for the children that says where, in KY, the family lived.

if any in the family was alive 1/1/1937, they would have applied for social security and had to submit a birth record to show proof of age. often this is a delayed birth certificate. if you ask for a birth certificate before 1930, also ask for a delayed birth certificate.

genealogists use names, dates, locations, children and spouses to match records. if you have a common surname, you need to give more information rather than less. if you post about women, it is helpful to include the maiden name and the married name and designate which one is the maiden name.

start with what you know, gather documentation, then you can go backward in time. so get your birth certificate, your parents’ birth certificates and marriage license and then you can start on your grandparents. if someone passed away after 1/1/1937, they probably have a social security application on file. if you ask a government agency for a birth certificate, and they were born before 1929, they might have submitted a delayed birth certificate. death certificates, cemetery information and obituaries are helpful. you can usually get a copy of an obituary, newspaper mentions such as birth of a child or marriage, through the interlibrary loan program – see your local public library for this. i usually start with the death and work toward the person’s birth. military records and pension records can be helpful. census records can tell you where they were at particular times, names of family members. the census records up to 1930 are available, although the 1890 census was largely destroyed. the 1940 census will be public information in 2012.

social security application for a deceased person:
http://www.ssa.gov/foia/html/foia_guide.htm

first of all, heritage and tribal enrollment are two different things. many times natives didn’t apply for enrollment because 1) they didn’t qualify, 2) they were philosophically opposed to enrollment, 3) they didn’t have documentation, or 4) they were mississippi choctaw and their ancestor had accepted land or benefits in lieu of tribal enrollment.

the dawes roll was taken 1896-1906, so you should trace your ancestors down to that time period. mostly, they had to be living in oklahoma by that time and agree to live there permanently.

history of the dawes roll
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dawes_Act
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dawes_Commission
wikipedia entries are sometimes opinionated; entered by volunteers.

helpful information about tribal enrollment
http://www.felihkatubbe.com/ChoctawNation/TribalMembership.html

2 ways to search:
http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/finalroll.php
this will let you enter partial names to get card#. click on the card# in the card column and you can see other names in that family.
other resources on the left and at the bottom of this webpage. native census records and databases are especially useful.

http://www.okhistory.org/research/dawes/index.php
this will give you card# (family group) and enrollment #. they have some native marriage records too. other oklahoma records listed at left.
if the name is common, you may find too many possible records.
you can order the dawes packet from the oklahoma historical society website.

if you find a relative listed on the dawes roll, fold3 may have filmed the record and could be available online.
http://www.fold3.com/documents/46580455/dawes-packets/
other resources are NARA http://www.archives.gov

http://okhistory.cuadra.com/star/public.html
oklahoma newspaper and archives search. some of these resources may be available through interlibrary loan/public library.

the tribe has an excellent information to help you. it is found under genealogy advocacy.
http://choctawnation.com/services/departments/community-services/

NARA http://www.archives.gov/ federal records repository. the fort worth, TX office has archives for oklahoma and texas tribes. atlanta/morrow office has archives for the southwest tribes. many offices have microfilmed records for several tribes. note that this web address has changed recently from nara.gov.

freedmen info:
You can ONLY apply for Choctaw Nation Membership, AFTER you have obtained a CDIB card proving your Choctaw Blood lineage to a direct ancestor who actually enrolled, BY BLOOD. Freedmen DID NOT enroll By Blood. When US Congress closed the Final Dawes Commission Rolls, there were no provisions granting Freedmen any benefits after the Dawes Commission closed. The tribe Constitution states BY BLOOD. however, the documents (application, census card and testimony) may help you find out more about your heritage.

mississippi choctaw and choctaw tribe explained here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choctaw_Trail_of_Tears
http://www.choctaw.org/

jena choctaw tribe in louisiana:
http://www.jenachoctaw.org/

MOWA tribe
http://encyclopediaofalabama.org/face/Article.jsp?id=h-1368
http://www.uab.edu/uabmagazine/2009/july/losttribe
http://www.native-american-online.org/MOWA-Choctaw.htm
MOWA Band Of Choctaws Wilford Taylor 1080 Red Fox Road Mount Vernon, AL 36560 (251) 829-5500. E-Mail: chieftaylor@mowachoctaw.com

other choctaw tribes:
http://www.aaanativearts.com/choctaw-indians/index.html

chickasaw historical society
Historic Preservation and Repatriation Office
Phone: (580) 272-5325
Fax: (580) 272-5327
2020 E. Arlington, Suite 4, Ada, OK 74820
send mail to: P.O. Box 1548, Ada, OK 74821

chickasaw tribe
Chickasaw Nation Headquarters
520 East Arlington, Ada, OK 74820
Phone (580) 436-2603
Mailing address: P.O. Box 1548, Ada, OK 74821
http://www.chickasaw.net/index.htm

chickasaw genealogy archive center Tribal Library
Phone: (580) 310-6477
Fax: (580) 559-0773
1003 Chamber Loop, Ada, OK 74820
send mail to: P.O. Box 1548, Ada, OK 74821

http://www.okhistory.org/
oklahoma historical society
other historical societies:
http://www.daddezio.com/society/hill/SH-OK-NDX.html
some oklahoma genealogical societies:
http://www.censusfinder.com/oklahoma-genealogy-society.htm
http://www.geneasearch.com/societies/socokla.htm

texas tribes
http://www.native-languages.org/texas.htm
http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/texas/index.htm
http://www.texasindians.com/
http://www.texasindians.com/
http://www.lsjunction.com/places/indians.htm

oklahoma tribes:
http://500nations.com/Oklahoma_Tribes.asp
http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/oklahoma/index.htm
http://www.cowboy.net/native/tribes.html

some links for the choctaw.
http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/tribes/choctaw/index.htm
i looked at the land records and those need a lot of work. i have no information about whether or when they will improve some of these categories.

types of records available for native americans:
pages 366-369 in particular although the entire native american chapter is helpful.
The Genealogist’s Companion and Sourcebook:
Guide to the Resources You Need for Unpuzzling Your Past
Emily Anne Croom
you can ask for these particular pages from your local public library. if they don’t have the book, you can get the pages through the interlibrary loan program.
native american records are discussed in pages 352-386.

Tracing ancestors among the Five Civilized Tribes: Southeastern Indians …
By Rachal Mills Lennon
this book could be accessed through the interlibary loan program also.

always find the state archives. some records are online, some records are not. but many times you can find a record not found in other places. you want to see also about newspaper mentions for obituaries, births, marriages in particular.

check courts for probate, civil and criminal cases, marriage records.

if your ancestors lived on a reservation, they might not appear on a federal census because they were not taxed.
http://www.okgenweb.org/~okgarvin/kinard/1860index.htm
1860 census, indian territory.

this book is a good read about the dawes roll and how they implemented it.
The Dawes Commission and the allotment of the Five Civilized Tribes, 1893-1914
By Kent Carter
and you can read this book online. your relatives’ testimony might be in the book.
http://www.archive.org/details/fivecivilizedtr00statgoog
see the menu at left. you can download it.

you should look at the enrollment application, census card and testimony. this post will tell you how to do that. these documents will tell you more about your heritage, but it won’t help you if your goal is to be enrolled in the choctaw tribe of oklahoma. some people were classed as mississippi choctaw if the family had a native heritage but didn’t qualify for enrollment in the tribe.

there are 63 tribes in oklahoma but only the five major tribes are on the dawes roll. look at your family’s location around 1900-1930 time period (census will help you there) and see if there was a tribe located nearby. it is possible that your relatives were affiliated with another tribe.

if they were mississippi choctaw, there is probably a land grant in MS/AL to a head of household called choctaw scrip land. this was given in lieu of tribal enrollment 1830-1880 time period. ancestry.com has a database of the MS and AL choctaw scrip land records, called mississippi or alabama land records. there are other land records in those databases too,, so you have to look at the authority/source cited. NARA http://www.archives.gov has those land record packages.

the mississippi choctaw was not removed from oklahoma. but they were largely rejected for tribal enrollment.

this website might help you in your search. some people are trying to transcribe applications.
http://www.us-census.org/native/choctaw_dawes.html
i do not know what they are trying to transcribe, but this is the volunteer page
http://www.us-census.org/states/graphics/status.htm

and this might be of interest to you:
http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/choctaw/rights-of-choctaws.htm
Rights of Mississippi Choctaws in the Choctaw Nation

http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/finalrolls/
Index to the Final Rolls of the Citizens and Freedmen of the Five Civilized Tribes in Indian Territory
the dawes roll is composed of applications to the five major tribes in oklahoma.

good advice about native research:
http://jenniferhsrn2.homestead.com/research2.html

if your relatives came from a different geographic location or belonged to a different tribe, try searching google for the state and tribes. you might find a contact for a state-recognized tribe or a federal recognized tribe.

this page can help you set up a targeted google search.
http://www.searchforancestors.com/google/searcher.html

penny postcards. this is a website that features pictures that were on postcards. click on the state to see the postcards that they have.
http://www.usgwarchives.org/special/ppcs/ppcs.html
if you have a penny postcard, you can click on submissions to add your penny postcard to the collection.

these searches will combine several possible search terms and give you the best matches.

i have collected many resources over the years. if you want to write to me, shamlet76@gmail.com and request the choctaw resource list, i will be glad to send it to you.

i am just a volunteer that wants to empower people to learn how to do genealogy.

suzanne hamlet shatto