Choctaw Nation of Oklahoma

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HOPEING FOR HELP ON QUESTION

ta wa hna ta wa hna

posted on December 4, 2011

HELLO, I AM TRYING TO FIND PROOF ON PAPERS, SHOWING MY CHOCTAW BLOOD.
I DECEND FROM THE KRIEGER AND LOWERY LINE OF CHOCTAW’S. I CANNOT FIND A BIRTH RECORD FOR MY GRGRGRANDPARENTS. HOW DO I PROVE MY BLOOD IF THERE ARE NO RECORDS?
THANK YOU
TA WA HNA

ta wa hna ta wa hna

posted on December 4, 2011

I HOPE SOMEONE CAN ANSWER THIS QUESTION.

suzanne hamlet shatto suzanne hamlet shatto

posted on December 4, 2011

you do your genealogy. start with what you know, gather documents, then go backwards in time. so get your birth certificate, your parents’ birth certificates and marriage license and then you can start on your grandparents. childrens’ documents point to the parents and fix the family to a location and date. if you are looking for an old birth certificate, you should ask for a delayed birth certificate as well as a birth certificate, as the vital records office would look for both.

if you get stuck on someone who passed away after 1/1/1937, you can ask for their social security application, which would give dates, locations, parents’ names.

the state vital records office would have birth, death and marriage records. sometimes you can also find them at county offices or state archives.

to check the dawes roll, you will have to know the relatives that were alive 1896-1906. the dawes roll has the names of applicants to the five major tribes in oklahoma 1896-1906. to apply for membership, you would have to show that you are directly related to an enrolled member of the tribe. after you check the dawes roll at accessgenealogy, you should find the same relative also at the oklahoma historical society tribal membership list.

there were 63 tribes in oklahoma.
links to the historical society of oklahoma, NARA/national archives, accessgenealogy are in this post, as well as directions about how to get a copy of the enrollment application, census card and testimony. you should get a copy of the enrollment application, even if your family was not enrolled, as it will give heritage information.

there are some mississippi choctaw kreager surnames on the dawes roll.
there are also some krieger surnames on the dawes roll.

in this family group, it occurs to me that “sowry” might be lowrey. names can be somewhat misspelled in the listing.
Dawes Card Information

tribe last first middle age sex blood card roll misc type
Choctaw Krieger Charles 0 M 4703 P
Choctaw Krieger Mary 0 F 4703 P
Choctaw Krieger Karl E 1 M 1/64 4703 NR KIOWA BB
Choctaw Krieger Mary D 1 F 1/64 4703 NR KIOWA BB
Choctaw Krieger Jesse S 2 M 1/64 4703 NR KIOWA BB
Choctaw Krieger Henry 3 M 1/64 4703 NR KIOWA BB
Choctaw Krieger Clarence S 7 M 1/64 4703 NR KIOWA BB
Choctaw Krieger Estelle S 10 F 1/64 4703 NR KIOWA BB
Choctaw Krieger Ethel S 10 F 1/64 4703 NR KIOWA BB
Choctaw Krieger William E 12 M 1/64 4703 NR KIOWA BB
Choctaw Krieger Chrystal E 14 F 1/64 4703 NR KIOWA BB
Choctaw Krieger Margaret A 31 F 1/32 4703 NR KIOWA BB
Choctaw Krieger William 42 M IW 4703 NR KIOWA BB
Choctaw McGee Maggie 0 F 4703 P
Choctaw Sowry T M 0 M 4703 P
p=parent
IW=intermarried white, a general nontribal description.
bb=by blood

Dawes Card Information

tribe last first middle age sex blood card roll misc type
Choctaw Kreiger C M 0 F 4704 P
Choctaw Krieger Charles 0 M 4704 P
Choctaw Krieger Francis S 2 M 1/8 4704 NR MCALESTER BB
Choctaw Krieger Mattie E 4 F 1/8 4704 NR MCALESTER BB
Choctaw Krieger Dee S 6 M 1/8 4704 NR MCALESTER BB
Choctaw Krieger Irena 10 F 1/8 4704 NR MCALESTER BB
Choctaw Krieger Charles F 12 M 1/8 4704 NR MCALESTER BB
Choctaw Krieger Arthur B 16 M 1/8 4704 NR MCALESTER BB
Choctaw Krieger Rosa E 19 F 1/8 4704 NR MCALESTER BB
Choctaw Krieger Catherine M 38 F 1/4 4704 NR MCALESTER BB
Choctaw Krieger Fredrick C 48 M IW 4704 NR MCALESTER BB
Choctaw Lowry B H 0 M 4704 P
Choctaw Lowry Lucy 0 F 4704 P

if you KNOW which relatives were alive about 1900, you might be able to identify your relatives now. you would have to ask the tribe which documents you would have to submit. once they have a copy of a document, they don’t need the same document from another relative. so if your aunt had submitted her father’s birth certificate, for instance, you would not have to submit your grandfather’s birth certificate because the tribe already has a copy.

genealogists use names, dates, locations, children and spouses to match records. if you have a common surname, you need to give more information rather than less. if you post about women, it is helpful to include the maiden name and the married name and designate which one is the maiden name.

start with what you know, gather documentation, then you can go backward in time. so get your birth certificate, your parents’ birth certificates and marriage license and then you can start on your grandparents. if someone passed away after 1/1/1937, they probably have a social security application on file. if you ask a government agency for a birth certificate, and they were born before 1929, they might have submitted a delayed birth certificate. death certificates, cemetery information and obituaries are helpful. you can usually get a copy of an obituary, newspaper mentions such as birth of a child or marriage, through the interlibrary loan program – see your local public library for this. i usually start with the death and work toward the person’s birth. military records and pension records can be helpful. census records can tell you where they were at particular times, names of family members. the census records up to 1930 are available, although the 1890 census was largely destroyed. the 1940 census will be public information in 2012.

social security application for a deceased person:
http://www.ssa.gov/foia/html/foia_guide.htm

first of all, heritage and tribal enrollment are two different things. many times natives didn’t apply for enrollment because 1) they didn’t qualify, 2) they were philosophically opposed to enrollment, 3) they didn’t have documentation, or 4) they were mississippi choctaw and their ancestor had accepted land or benefits in lieu of tribal enrollment.

the dawes roll was taken 1896-1906, so you should trace your ancestors down to that time period. mostly, they had to be living in oklahoma by that time and agree to live there permanently.

history of the dawes roll
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dawes_Act
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dawes_Commission
wikipedia entries are sometimes opinionated; entered by volunteers.

helpful information about tribal enrollment
http://www.felihkatubbe.com/ChoctawNation/TribalMembership.html

2 ways to search:
http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/finalroll.php
this will let you enter partial names to get card#. click on the card# in the card column and you can see other names in that family.
other resources on the left and at the bottom of this webpage. native census records and databases are especially useful.

http://www.okhistory.org/research/dawes/index.php
this will give you card# (family group) and enrollment #. they have some native marriage records too. other oklahoma records listed at left.
if the name is common, you may find too many possible records.
you can order the dawes packet from the oklahoma historical society website.

if you find a relative listed on the dawes roll, fold3 may have filmed the record and could be available online.
http://www.fold3.com/documents/46580455/dawes-packets/
other resources are NARA http://www.archives.gov

http://okhistory.cuadra.com/star/public.html
oklahoma newspaper and archives search. some of these resources may be available through interlibrary loan/public library.

the tribe has an excellent information to help you. it is found under genealogy advocacy.
http://choctawnation.com/services/departments/community-services/

NARA http://www.archives.gov/ federal records repository. the fort worth, TX office has archives for oklahoma and texas tribes. atlanta/morrow office has archives for the southwest tribes. many offices have microfilmed records for several tribes. note that this web address has changed recently from nara.gov.

freedmen info:
You can ONLY apply for Choctaw Nation Membership, AFTER you have obtained a CDIB card proving your Choctaw Blood lineage to a direct ancestor who actually enrolled, BY BLOOD. Freedmen DID NOT enroll By Blood. When US Congress closed the Final Dawes Commission Rolls, there were no provisions granting Freedmen any benefits after the Dawes Commission closed. The tribe Constitution states BY BLOOD. however, the documents (application, census card and testimony) may help you find out more about your heritage.

mississippi choctaw and choctaw tribe explained here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choctaw_Trail_of_Tears
http://www.choctaw.org/

jena choctaw tribe in louisiana:
http://www.jenachoctaw.org/

MOWA tribe
http://encyclopediaofalabama.org/face/Article.jsp?id=h-1368
http://www.uab.edu/uabmagazine/2009/july/losttribe
http://www.native-american-online.org/MOWA-Choctaw.htm
MOWA Band Of Choctaws Wilford Taylor 1080 Red Fox Road Mount Vernon, AL 36560 (251) 829-5500. E-Mail: chieftaylor@mowachoctaw.com

other choctaw tribes:
http://www.aaanativearts.com/choctaw-indians/index.html

chickasaw historical society
Historic Preservation and Repatriation Office
Phone: (580) 272-5325
Fax: (580) 272-5327
2020 E. Arlington, Suite 4, Ada, OK 74820
send mail to: P.O. Box 1548, Ada, OK 74821

chickasaw tribe
Chickasaw Nation Headquarters
520 East Arlington, Ada, OK 74820
Phone (580) 436-2603
Mailing address: P.O. Box 1548, Ada, OK 74821
http://www.chickasaw.net/index.htm

chickasaw genealogy archive center Tribal Library
Phone: (580) 310-6477
Fax: (580) 559-0773
1003 Chamber Loop, Ada, OK 74820
send mail to: P.O. Box 1548, Ada, OK 74821

http://www.okhistory.org/
oklahoma historical society
other historical societies:
http://www.daddezio.com/society/hill/SH-OK-NDX.html
some oklahoma genealogical societies:
http://www.censusfinder.com/oklahoma-genealogy-society.htm
http://www.geneasearch.com/societies/socokla.htm

texas tribes
http://www.native-languages.org/texas.htm
http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/texas/index.htm
http://www.texasindians.com/
http://www.texasindians.com/
http://www.lsjunction.com/places/indians.htm

oklahoma tribes:
http://500nations.com/Oklahoma_Tribes.asp
http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/oklahoma/index.htm
http://www.cowboy.net/native/tribes.html

some links for the choctaw.
http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/tribes/choctaw/index.htm
i looked at the land records and those need a lot of work. i have no information about whether or when they will improve some of these categories.

types of records available for native americans:
pages 366-369 in particular although the entire native american chapter is helpful.
The Genealogist’s Companion and Sourcebook:
Guide to the Resources You Need for Unpuzzling Your Past
Emily Anne Croom
you can ask for these particular pages from your local public library. if they don’t have the book, you can get the pages through the interlibrary loan program.
native american records are discussed in pages 352-386.

Tracing ancestors among the Five Civilized Tribes: Southeastern Indians …
By Rachal Mills Lennon
this book could be accessed through the interlibary loan program also.

always find the state archives. some records are online, some records are not. but many times you can find a record not found in other places. you want to see also about newspaper mentions for obituaries, births, marriages in particular.

check courts for probate, civil and criminal cases, marriage records.

if your ancestors lived on a reservation, they might not appear on a federal census because they were not taxed.
http://www.okgenweb.org/~okgarvin/kinard/1860index.htm
1860 census, indian territory.

this book is a good read about the dawes roll and how they implemented it.
The Dawes Commission and the allotment of the Five Civilized Tribes, 1893-1914
By Kent Carter

good advice about native research:
http://jenniferhsrn2.homestead.com/research2.html

if your relatives came from a different geographic location or belonged to a different tribe, try searching google for the state and tribes. you might find a contact for a state-recognized tribe or a federal recognized tribe.

this page can help you set up a targeted google search.
http://www.searchforancestors.com/google/searcher.html

these searches will combine several possible search terms and give you the best matches.

i have collected many resources over the years. if you want to write to me, shamlet76@gmail.com and request the choctaw resource list, i will be glad to send it to you.

i am just a volunteer that wants to empower people to learn how to do genealogy.

suzanne hamlet shatto

Sarah Sarah

posted on December 14, 2011

Ms. Suzanne,
I have a question… I have a great grandmother, her name was Neice Ellen Chisnall (Wilson) was her maiden name. She was full Choctaw she was born in 1866 but I don’t know where? She died in Arkansas and I have a picture I found of her tombstone. Notable things about her were she had a double cleft palate. Would be hard for anyone that knew her to forget that. My grandfather only knew these few things about her. When he would come visit when she was older he would try to ask questions about her tribe and people in the family would always say why are you trying to dig up dirt. All he tried to do in his life was family history. Trying hard to find out which tribe of Choctaw and where from. He later found out that she was raped at a very young age and had a baby out of wedlock and thoughs things were shunned. My grandfather has long since passed and I have tried hard to find anything but just can’t seem to. Maybe I just don’t have enough information? Without knowing if she was born in Ok or Miss is very hard to start. Any thoughts??? Thank you very much!!!

suzanne hamlet shatto suzanne hamlet shatto

posted on December 15, 2011

it’s too bad that you posted on this thread as others won’t see it.

there were some wilsons that were on the dawes roll, as my late husband’s family were wilsons.

no spouse, no children, no date or place of death in your post. this makes it difficult to find her. wilson is a common surname.

the dawes roll was taken in oklahoma 1896-1906. who was alive during this time period. there were only the five major tribes in oklahoma on the dawes roll. there are 63 tribes in oklahoma and i don’t know how many were in arkansas. location is important information when searching for tribal affiliation.

are you sure her first name was neice? maybe it was a form of nisay?

i think you are trying to go back too far. try for the 1900 time period. give the name, spouse, children, dates and locations.

if you post on a new thread, i will answer you and once i find your relatives, i can better advise you.

genealogists use names, dates, locations, children and spouses to match records. if you have a common

surname, you need to give more information rather than less. if you post about women, it is helpful to

include the maiden name and the married name and designate which one is the maiden name.

start with what you know, gather documentation, then you can go backward in time. so get your birth

certificate, your parents’ birth certificates and marriage license and then you can start on your

grandparents. if someone passed away after 1/1/1937, they probably have a social security application on

file. if you ask a government agency for a birth certificate, and they were born before 1929, they might

have submitted a delayed birth certificate. death certificates, cemetery information and obituaries are

helpful. you can usually get a copy of an obituary, newspaper mentions such as birth of a child or

marriage, through the interlibrary loan program – see your local public library for this. i usually start

with the death and work toward the person’s birth. military records and pension records can be helpful.

census records can tell you where they were at particular times, names of family members. the census

records up to 1930 are available, although the 1890 census was largely destroyed. the 1940 census will be

public information in 2012.

social security application for a deceased person:
http://www.ssa.gov/foia/html/foia_guide.htm

first of all, heritage and tribal enrollment are two different things. many times natives didn’t apply for

enrollment because 1) they didn’t qualify, 2) they were philosophically opposed to enrollment, 3) they

didn’t have documentation, or 4) they were mississippi choctaw and their ancestor had accepted land or

benefits in lieu of tribal enrollment.

the dawes roll was taken 1896-1906, so you should trace your ancestors down to that time period. mostly,

they had to be living in oklahoma by that time and agree to live there permanently.

history of the dawes roll
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dawes_Act
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dawes_Commission
wikipedia entries are sometimes opinionated; entered by volunteers.

helpful information about tribal enrollment
http://www.felihkatubbe.com/ChoctawNation/TribalMembership.html

2 ways to search:
http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/finalroll.php
this will let you enter partial names to get card#. click on the card# in the card column and you can see

other names in that family.
other resources on the left and at the bottom of this webpage. native census records and databases are

especially useful.

http://www.okhistory.org/research/dawes/index.php
this will give you card# (family group) and enrollment #. they have some native marriage records too. other

oklahoma records listed at left.
if the name is common, you may find too many possible records.
you can order the dawes packet from the oklahoma historical society website.

if you find a relative listed on the dawes roll, fold3 may have filmed the record and could be available

online.
http://www.fold3.com/documents/46580455/dawes-packets/
other resources are NARA http://www.archives.gov

http://okhistory.cuadra.com/star/public.html
oklahoma newspaper and archives search. some of these resources may be available through interlibrary

loan/public library.

the tribe has an excellent information to help you. it is found under genealogy advocacy.
http://choctawnation.com/services/departments/community-services/

NARA http://www.archives.gov/ federal records repository. the fort worth, TX office has archives for

oklahoma and texas tribes. atlanta/morrow office has archives for the southwest tribes. many offices have

microfilmed records for several tribes. note that this web address has changed recently from nara.gov.

freedmen info:
You can ONLY apply for Choctaw Nation Membership, AFTER you have obtained a CDIB card proving your Choctaw

Blood lineage to a direct ancestor who actually enrolled, BY BLOOD. Freedmen DID NOT enroll By Blood. When

US Congress closed the Final Dawes Commission Rolls, there were no provisions granting Freedmen any

benefits after the Dawes Commission closed. The tribe Constitution states BY BLOOD. however, the documents

(application, census card and testimony) may help you find out more about your heritage.

mississippi choctaw and choctaw tribe explained here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choctaw_Trail_of_Tears
http://www.choctaw.org/

jena choctaw tribe in louisiana:
http://www.jenachoctaw.org/

MOWA tribe
http://encyclopediaofalabama.org/face/Article.jsp?id=h-1368
http://www.uab.edu/uabmagazine/2009/july/losttribe
http://www.native-american-online.org/MOWA-Choctaw.htm
MOWA Band Of Choctaws Wilford Taylor 1080 Red Fox Road Mount Vernon, AL 36560 (251) 829-5500. E-Mail:

chieftaylor@mowachoctaw.com

other choctaw tribes:
http://www.aaanativearts.com/choctaw-indians/index.html

chickasaw historical society
Historic Preservation and Repatriation Office
Phone: (580) 272-5325
Fax: (580) 272-5327
2020 E. Arlington, Suite 4, Ada, OK 74820
send mail to: P.O. Box 1548, Ada, OK 74821

chickasaw tribe
Chickasaw Nation Headquarters
520 East Arlington, Ada, OK 74820
Phone (580) 436-2603
Mailing address: P.O. Box 1548, Ada, OK 74821
http://www.chickasaw.net/index.htm

chickasaw genealogy archive center Tribal Library
Phone: (580) 310-6477
Fax: (580) 559-0773
1003 Chamber Loop, Ada, OK 74820
send mail to: P.O. Box 1548, Ada, OK 74821

http://www.okhistory.org/
oklahoma historical society
other historical societies:
http://www.daddezio.com/society/hill/SH-OK-NDX.html
some oklahoma genealogical societies:
http://www.censusfinder.com/oklahoma-genealogy-society.htm
http://www.geneasearch.com/societies/socokla.htm

texas tribes
http://www.native-languages.org/texas.htm
http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/texas/index.htm
http://www.texasindians.com/
http://www.texasindians.com/
http://www.lsjunction.com/places/indians.htm

oklahoma tribes:
http://500nations.com/Oklahoma_Tribes.asp
http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/oklahoma/index.htm
http://www.cowboy.net/native/tribes.html

some links for the choctaw.
http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/tribes/choctaw/index.htm
i looked at the land records and those need a lot of work. i have no information about whether or when they

will improve some of these categories.

types of records available for native americans:
pages 366-369 in particular although the entire native american chapter is helpful.
The Genealogist’s Companion and Sourcebook:
Guide to the Resources You Need for Unpuzzling Your Past
Emily Anne Croom
you can ask for these particular pages from your local public library. if they don’t have the book, you can

get the pages through the interlibrary loan program.
native american records are discussed in pages 352-386.

Tracing ancestors among the Five Civilized Tribes: Southeastern Indians …
By Rachal Mills Lennon
this book could be accessed through the interlibary loan program also.

always find the state archives. some records are online, some records are not. but many times you can find

a record not found in other places. you want to see also about newspaper mentions for obituaries, births,

marriages in particular.

check courts for probate, civil and criminal cases, marriage records.

if your ancestors lived on a reservation, they might not appear on a federal census because they were not

taxed.
http://www.okgenweb.org/~okgarvin/kinard/1860index.htm
1860 census, indian territory.

this book is a good read about the dawes roll and how they implemented it.
The Dawes Commission and the allotment of the Five Civilized Tribes, 1893-1914
By Kent Carter
and you can read this book online. your relatives’ testimony might be in the book.
http://www.archive.org/details/fivecivilizedtr00statgoog
see the menu at left. you can download it.

you should look at the enrollment application, census card and testimony. this post will tell you how to

do that. these documents will tell you more about your heritage, but it won’t help you if your goal is to

be enrolled in the choctaw tribe of oklahoma. some people were classed as mississippi choctaw if the

family had a native heritage but didn’t qualify for enrollment in the tribe.

there are 63 tribes in oklahoma but only the five major tribes are on the dawes roll. look at your

family’s location around 1900-1930 time period (census will help you there) and see if there was a tribe

located nearby. it is possible that your relatives were affiliated with another tribe.

if they were mississippi choctaw, there is probably a land grant in MS/AL to a head of household called

choctaw scrip land. this was given in lieu of tribal enrollment 1830-1880 time period. ancestry.com has a

database of the MS and AL choctaw scrip land records, called mississippi or alabama land records. there

are other land records in those databases too,, so you have to look at the authority/source cited. NARA

http://www.archives.gov has those land record packages.

the mississippi choctaw was not removed from oklahoma. but they were largely rejected for tribal

enrollment.

this website might help you in your search. some people are trying to transcribe applications.
http://www.us-census.org/native/choctaw_dawes.html
i do not know what they are trying to transcribe, but this is the volunteer page
http://www.us-census.org/states/graphics/status.htm

and this might be of interest to you:
http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/choctaw/rights-of-choctaws.htm
Rights of Mississippi Choctaws in the Choctaw Nation

http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/finalrolls/
Index to the Final Rolls of the Citizens and Freedmen of the Five Civilized Tribes in Indian Territory
the dawes roll is composed of applications to the five major tribes in oklahoma.

good advice about native research:
http://jenniferhsrn2.homestead.com/research2.html

if your relatives came from a different geographic location or belonged to a different tribe, try searching

google for the state and tribes. you might find a contact for a state-recognized tribe or a federal

recognized tribe.

this page can help you set up a targeted google search.
http://www.searchforancestors.com/google/searcher.html

these searches will combine several possible search terms and give you the best matches.

i have collected many resources over the years. if you want to write to me, shamlet76@gmail.com and request

the choctaw resource list, i will be glad to send it to you.

i am just a volunteer that wants to empower people to learn how to do genealogy.

suzanne hamlet shatto