Choctaw Nation of Oklahoma

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Mississippi Choctaw

Delobar Delobar

posted on October 6, 2011

I had always been told that my grandmother was part Choctaw, but I never knew how until recently. My great-grandmother and my great-great-grandmother both applied to the Dawes Commission as Mississippi Choctaws in 1901. Both applications were rejected because they were not able to furnish sufficient proof of my great-great-grandmother’s ancestry. Both her parents had died when she was young and the children were raised by her father’s mother, who was not Indian. Her maternal grandparents, through whom she claimed her Choctaw blood, had both passed away before she was born. During the Dawes interview, my great-great grandmother (Martha) said she had a witness who could testify or give a deposition about her parentage. I never saw any testimony, but there was a family tree attached. Her grandfather was a full blood Choctaw named Kavanaugh I believe (could be spelled differently) and her grandmother was a half-blood Choctaw named Jenny Nelson. In the family tree in the Dawes application packet, it shows one of Jenny’s parents as a Ganet Nelson. (not sure if Ganet is male or female). Someone on ancestry very adamantly informed me that my family was NOT Choctaw because their application was rejected. And they eluded to the fact that many white people tried to get land that wasn’t theirs by claiming to be Indian while they weren’t. While I don’t dispute that fact at all, I take very much offense in the fact that my family was accused of this. I believe in my heritage, whether or not they were enrolled in the Five Tribes after the Dawes Commission applications. Now to get to the point of my story: I found the section on access.genealogy, which is part of ancestry.com, which mentions Mixed Blood Choctaws before the Removal. Lo and behold, I found several Nelsons on one of the appendixes, and Ganet Nelson & Jenny Nelson were on that list as mixed blood Choctaws. I still haven’t found my Kavanaugh however. Does anyone have any information on these families and what happened to them after the removal? I don’t know what the first name of my gggg-grandfather was. The appendix says that Ganet and Jenny were both listed on the Halbert Rolls. They are supposed to be part of the Alabama National Archives or something like that. Does anyone have any information on these rolls or how to access them? I want to find out if this Ganet & Jenny are my ancestors. Also, I believe that my gggg-grandfather was one of the Full Blood Choctaws who refused to move to Oklahoma. Apparently they moved to Arkansas where my gg-grandmother was born. As I said earlier, Martha’s mother died in childbirth and soon after that her father joined the Civil War and died of sickness. His mother raised the children and she obviously did not raise them as Indian. At this point, I am not trying to prove my heritage for recognition, I’m just trying to prove it for my family. Please, any information would be great. Thank you.

suzanne hamlet shatto suzanne hamlet shatto

posted on October 6, 2011

as far as i know, accessgenealogy is not part of ancestry.com.

re: mississippi choctaw. you need to look at the requirements for membership. this might explain why your ancestor’s application was rejected.

i would disregard the opinion of someone who didn’t understand the classification of the MCR and who didn’t understand the concept of the mississippi choctaw and choctaw tribe in oklahoma. some bands of natives didn’t go on the trail of tears and accepted land grants in lieu of tribal enrollment. often, this acceptance made later generations “ineligible” for enrollment at the time of the dawes roll.

when natives lived on reservation, they were on native census records and native databases because they were not taxed. when natives lived off-reservation, they were listed on the federal census records. first you should trace your family records on the census records, with birth and death and marriage certificates. use the census records so that you can see family members and migration.
location
vital records: county clerk or state vital records or state archives
census records: heritage quest or ancestry.com which usually can be accessed through your local public library
land or court records: sometimes indexed at ancestry.com, court clerk, state archives, homestead or land grant records at the bureau of land management, NARA, national archives and records administration – http://www.archives.gov
obituary and local newspaper and local history books – see your local public library for this. often at state historical societies, state archives
military records – ancestry.com index and these records are at NARA,national archives and records administration http://www.archives.gov look especially for a pension record which usually has genealogical information

this might be the information you seek:
Nelson, Ganet Halbert P
Nelson, Garnet Yalobusha R. ARM P
Nelson, Garrett Halbert P
Nelson, George Yalobusha R. ARM P
Nelson, Isaac Yalobusha R. ARM P
Nelson, Isaac Halbert P
Nelson, Jenny Halbert P

source:
HALBERT: Halbert Roll of Choctaw claims, Alabama Department of Archives and History.

P. In all probability a mixed blood. A very conservative standard is used to identify individuals as being of mixed blood. All names in the appendices by the very nature of the source documents are those of Choctaw Indians. Individuals assessed as Probable were not positively identified by documentation as having mixed blood, but the combination of surname, location, etc. all indicate a high degree of probability.

you would have to see what this means.

The Halbert roll is a list of Choctaw claimants in the historic case of the Choctaw Nation v. the United States, case #12742, United States Court of Claims, stemming from the Treaty of Dancing Rabbit Creek and was generated by a series of claims which came eventually to be known as the Net Proceeds case. Simply stated, the Choctaw tribe sued the United States for the profits, or proceeds, from sale of their lands in Mississippi, and many individuals traced their post Civil War claims to their ancestors of two generations or more ago. Henry Sales Halbert who had taught at Choctaw schools in Mississippi in the late nineteenth century collected the list of claimants (including individuals removed from Mississippi as well as some of their heirs) known as the Halbert Roll. A copy of this roll can be found at the Alabama Department of Archives and History along with other Halbert papers pertaining to the Choctaw Indians. Since this study mainly concerns mixed bloods the thousands of names of full-blood Choctaws are not included.

http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/choctaw/mixedblood/introduction.htm

you must be speaking about this:
http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/choctaw/mixedblood/choctaw_indian_mixed_bloods_appendix_a.htm

access:
http://aiac.alabama.gov/Gen_choctaw.aspx

sources of information that might help you:
More recent information about Choctaw in Mississippi may be found in their censuses beginning in 1926. Information about the Choctaw in Mississippi during the last quarter of the nineteenth century may be obtained from the papers of Henry Halbert, which are in the state archives of Mississippi and Alabama. Mr. Halbert, a teacher in the Mississippi Choctaw schools and later an employee in the Alabama State Archives, wrote extensively about their life after Indian Removal which has never been published. There is also some incidental genealogical information.

Resources
Archives
National Archives and Record Service
Washington, D.C. 20408
(to purchase microfilm, address Publications Service Branch (NEPS)

National Archives and Record Service (Southeast Region)
1557 St. Joseph Street.
East Point, GA 30344

National Archives and Record Service (Southwest Region)
501 Felix Street Box 6216
Fort Worth, TX 76115

State of Alabama
Dept. of Archives and History
624 Washington Avenue
Montgomery, AL 36130

so, in summary, re: “removal”. natives had a choice about whether they were “removed” after the treaty of rabbit creek. however that choice did have consequences to the family at a later point.

you might also look into the MOWA tribe, links in this post.

genealogists use names, dates, locations, children and spouses to match records. if you have a common surname, you need to give more information rather than less. if you post about women, it is helpful to include the maiden name and the married name and designate which one is the maiden name.

start with what you know, gather documentation, then you can go backward in time. so get your birth certificate, your parents’ birth certificates and marriage license and then you can start on your grandparents. if someone passed away after 1/1/1937, they probably have a social security application on file. if you ask a government agency for a birth certificate, and they were born before 1929, they might have submitted a delayed birth certificate. death certificates, cemetery information and obituaries are helpful. you can usually get a copy of an obituary, newspaper mentions such as birth of a child or marriage, through the interlibrary loan program – see your local public library for this. i usually start with the death and work toward the person’s birth. military records and pension records can be helpful. census records can tell you where they were at particular times, names of family members. the census records up to 1930 are available, although the 1890 census was largely destroyed. the 1940 census will be public information in 2012.

social security application for a deceased person:
http://www.ssa.gov/foia/html/foia_guide.htm

first of all, heritage and tribal enrollment are two different things. many times natives didn’t apply for enrollment because 1) they didn’t qualify, 2) they were philosophically opposed to enrollment, 3) they didn’t have documentation, or 4) they were mississippi choctaw and their ancestor had accepted land or benefits in lieu of tribal enrollment.

the dawes roll was taken 1896-1906, so you should trace your ancestors down to that time period. mostly, they had to be living in oklahoma by that time and agree to live there permanently.

history of the dawes roll
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dawes_Act
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dawes_Commission
wikipedia entries are sometimes opinionated; entered by volunteers.

helpful information about tribal enrollment
http://www.felihkatubbe.com/ChoctawNation/TribalMembership.html

2 ways to search:
http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/finalroll.php
this will let you enter partial names to get card#. click on the card# in the card column and you can see other names in that family.
other resources on the left and at the bottom of this webpage. native census records and databases are especially useful.

http://www.okhistory.org/research/dawes/index.php
this will give you card# (family group) and enrollment #. they have some native marriage records too. other oklahoma records listed at left.
if the name is common, you may find too many possible records.
you can order the dawes packet from the oklahoma historical society website.

if you find a relative listed on the dawes roll, fold3 may have filmed the record and could be available online.
http://www.fold3.com/documents/46580455/dawes-packets/
other resources are NARA http://www.archives.gov

http://okhistory.cuadra.com/star/public.html
oklahoma newspaper and archives search. some of these resources may be available through interlibrary loan/public library.

the tribe has an excellent information to help you. it is found under genealogy advocacy.
http://choctawnation.com/services/departments/community-services/

NARA http://www.archives.gov/ federal records repository. the fort worth, TX office has archives for oklahoma and texas tribes. atlanta/morrow office has archives for the southwest tribes. many offices have microfilmed records for several tribes. note that this web address has changed recently from nara.gov.

freedmen info:
You can ONLY apply for Choctaw Nation Membership, AFTER you have obtained a CDIB card proving your Choctaw Blood lineage to a direct ancestor who actually enrolled, BY BLOOD. Freedmen DID NOT enroll By Blood. When US Congress closed the Final Dawes Commission Rolls, there were no provisions granting Freedmen any benefits after the Dawes Commission closed. The tribe Constitution states BY BLOOD. however, the documents (application, census card and testimony) may help you find out more about your heritage.

mississippi choctaw and choctaw tribe explained here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choctaw_Trail_of_Tears
http://www.choctaw.org/

jena choctaw tribe in louisiana:
http://www.jenachoctaw.org/

MOWA tribe
http://encyclopediaofalabama.org/face/Article.jsp?id=h-1368
http://www.uab.edu/uabmagazine/2009/july/losttribe
http://www.native-american-online.org/MOWA-Choctaw.htm
MOWA Band Of Choctaws Wilford Taylor 1080 Red Fox Road Mount Vernon, AL 36560 (251) 829-5500. E-Mail: chieftaylor@mowachoctaw.com

other choctaw tribes:
http://www.aaanativearts.com/choctaw-indians/index.html

chickasaw historical society
Historic Preservation and Repatriation Office
Phone: (580) 272-5325
Fax: (580) 272-5327
2020 E. Arlington, Suite 4, Ada, OK 74820
send mail to: P.O. Box 1548, Ada, OK 74821

chickasaw tribe
Chickasaw Nation Headquarters
520 East Arlington, Ada, OK 74820
Phone (580) 436-2603
Mailing address: P.O. Box 1548, Ada, OK 74821
http://www.chickasaw.net/index.htm

chickasaw genealogy archive center Tribal Library
Phone: (580) 310-6477
Fax: (580) 559-0773
1003 Chamber Loop, Ada, OK 74820
send mail to: P.O. Box 1548, Ada, OK 74821

http://www.okhistory.org/
oklahoma historical society
other historical societies:
http://www.daddezio.com/society/hill/SH-OK-NDX.html
some oklahoma genealogical societies:
http://www.censusfinder.com/oklahoma-genealogy-society.htm
http://www.geneasearch.com/societies/socokla.htm

texas tribes
http://www.native-languages.org/texas.htm
http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/texas/index.htm
http://www.texasindians.com/
http://www.texasindians.com/
http://www.lsjunction.com/places/indians.htm

oklahoma tribes:
http://500nations.com/Oklahoma_Tribes.asp
http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/oklahoma/index.htm
http://www.cowboy.net/native/tribes.html

some links for the choctaw.
http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/tribes/choctaw/index.htm
i looked at the land records and those need a lot of work. i have no information about whether or when they will improve some of these categories.

types of records available for native americans:
pages 366-369 in particular although the entire native american chapter is helpful.
The Genealogist’s Companion and Sourcebook:
Guide to the Resources You Need for Unpuzzling Your Past
Emily Anne Croom
you can ask for these particular pages from your local public library. if they don’t have the book, you can get the pages through the interlibrary loan program.
native american records are discussed in pages 352-386.

Tracing ancestors among the Five Civilized Tribes: Southeastern Indians …
By Rachal Mills Lennon
this book could be accessed through the interlibary loan program also.

always find the state archives. some records are online, some records are not. but many times you can find a record not found in other places. you want to see also about newspaper mentions for obituaries, births, marriages in particular.

check courts for probate, civil and criminal cases, marriage records.

if your ancestors lived on a reservation, they might not appear on a federal census because they were not taxed.
http://www.okgenweb.org/~okgarvin/kinard/1860index.htm
1860 census, indian territory.

this book is a good read about the dawes roll and how they implemented it.
The Dawes Commission and the allotment of the Five Civilized Tribes, 1893-1914
By Kent Carter

good advice about native research:
http://jenniferhsrn2.homestead.com/research2.html

if your relatives came from a different geographic location or belonged to a different tribe, try searching google for the state and tribes. you might find a contact for a state-recognized tribe or a federal recognized tribe.

this page can help you set up a targeted google search.
http://www.searchforancestors.com/google/searcher.html

these searches will combine several possible search terms and give you the best matches.

i have collected many resources over the years. if you want to write to me, shamlet76@gmail.com and request the choctaw resource list, i will be glad to send it to you.

i am just a volunteer that wants to empower people to learn how to do genealogy.

suzanne hamlet shatto

Delobar Delobar

posted on October 6, 2011

Hi Suzanne,

I thought that accessgenealogy was a part of ancestry.com, but I guess its because everything seems to be running together in my mind. Ha. Thank you for the information – that helps a lot. And yes, that link you provided was the link where I found the information about the Halbert Rolls. I was hoping that someone might know of free access to them. The biggest problem for me is my gg-grandmother’s mother, Cynthia. On ancestry, her name is shown to be Cynthia Colinger. Contact with other family members, especially one from Arkansas where her family is from, admits that none of the family knows where the name Colinger came from. I believe that her parents names were Kavanaugh, from the information my gg-grandmother gave in her Dawes interview. It could be spelled Cavanah, perhaps somewhere the name got mangled or mis-read, I’m not sure. But there is no evidence that I can find of Cynthia’s ancestry at all. I have the necessary documents tracing all the way back to Cynthia, but with her is a brick wall. The closest I have come is finding the names Ganet and Jenny Nelson. It could be just a coincidence that they are the same names my gg-grandmother used on her application. I have also done searches on ancestry and rootsweb for Ganet and Jenny Nelson too, to no avail. Perhaps I am not using the correct criteria in my searches, I admit that I am not an expert in genealogy. Any other advice on how to overcome this obstacle would be appreciated.

Delobar Delobar

posted on October 6, 2011

If I can get access to the Halbert Rolls, there might be corresponding information that will help me determine if they are related.

Delobar Delobar

posted on October 7, 2011

My gg-grandmother’s card # was MCR3536 and my g-grandmother’s card # was MCR3537, in case you would like to see them. Their rejection letter mentioned that the proof was insufficient to determine their ancestry.

I’m going to start using some of the resources you sent me and hopefully will come up with something. I don’t understand why out of all the Rolls listed, the Halbert Rolls seem to be the only ones that are not readily available online.

suzanne hamlet shatto suzanne hamlet shatto

posted on October 7, 2011

you have not given any dates, locations, spouse or children for cynthia or any other relative. this makes it difficult to research. i have no idea who your “g-grandmother” was. you know who you are talking about, but i don’t.

it appears the halbert rolls might be on 13 microfilm rolls. you might be able to gain access to them through the church of latter day saints, family history center or through interlibrary loan – see your local public library for that. since there might be an index for those rolls online, you might ask the alabama department of archives and history which roll, which page might contain the information. you might even be able get them to send you a copy of the pages that pertain to these people.

i am more concerned about the connection to them, because it appears that you are doing a lot of work online without collecting documents. mistakes can often be made, if you fail to do genealogy in an orderly way, collecting documents as you go.

you give the card #s but no particular person.
Dawes Results
Total Records: 9 Tribe Last First Middle Age Sex Blood Card Roll Misc Type
Choctaw Liles Absalom Liles 0 M MCR3536 P
Choctaw Liles Cynthia 0 F MCR3536 P
Choctaw Stephens Alexander 0 M MCR3536 P
Choctaw Stephens Francis Henry 12 M 1/8 MCR3536 MCR
Choctaw Stephens Joseph Carrel 16 M 1/8 MCR3536 MCR
Choctaw Stephens Martha Adeline 41 F 1/4 MCR3536 MCR
Choctaw Stephens Mary Adeline 18 F 1/8 MCR3536 MCR
Choctaw Stephens Tommie Delmane 4 F 1/8 MCR3536 MCR
Choctaw Stephens Wileyh Alexander 14 M 1/8 MCR3536 MCR
p=parent

Tribe Last First Middle Age Sex Blood Card Roll Misc Type
Choctaw Brown Hughes 0 M MCR3537 P
Choctaw Brown Melvin 1 M 1/16 MCR3537 MCR
Choctaw Brown Millie Belle 3 F 1/16 MCR3537 MCR
Choctaw Brown Nancy 21 F 1/16 MCR3537 MCR
Choctaw Stephens Aleck 0 M MCR3537 P
Choctaw Stephens Martha 0 F MCR3537 P

if you don’t have the census card, enrollment application, other documents, then you might want to get these things.
i think the testimony might be in the five civilized tribes book in my earlier post.

you will find that some times natives changed their names, depending on their favorite places, people. spellings will vary, as few people in that time period were literate. dates and locations may vary between records and these were not their primary method of identification, as they are now. so if you asked someone a question like that, they will try to remember but it is not very important to them. you can see this in cemetery records, birth certificates of long ago.

when social security came into effect 1/1/1937, people filled out an application and submitted a birth record to show proof of age. sometimes the records submitted were birth certificates, often they were delayed birth certificates. so this might be able to help you find documents. when you ask for a birth certificate, also ask for a delayed birth certificate. those documents are often in chronological order, so the vital records office might miss it if you don’t ask for the delayed birth certificate.

do you have a death certificate for anyone? you might get this from the state vital records office or the county records office. do you have an obituary? you might get this from newspapers in the state historical society or state archives or through your local public library interlibrary loan program. do you have a cemetery record? try findagrave.com or interment.com first.

if you find the last census record where they appear, then you know the 10 year possible period of death and location.

is this right?
nancy stephens married hughes brown.
martha adeline liles m. alexander stephens
absalom liles m. cynthia ?

these are common names, so you need more information rather than less information.
but i don’t know. i am lacking very important information and dealing with common names.

Delobar Delobar

posted on October 7, 2011 and updated on October 7, 2011

Suzanne,

Thank you so much for your help. Please bear with me, I am not a seasoned researcher at all. But I do have death certificates, census records, birth records, etc, (mostly) all the way back to Cynthia (I don’t have them for her). I also downloaded all of the images from the application packets on fold3.com. Every piece of information I have found so far is on my computer. Cynthia is the brick wall. And yes, you have the correct spouses at the end of your post. Nancy was my great-grandmother, Martha my gg-grandmother and Cynthia was my ggg-grandmother. These are facts that I can prove. Cynthia is shown as Colinger in my search on ancestry, and there is a relative of hers also that confirms Colinger as her last name, but he and none of the rest of the family know where the name Colinger came from. Nor does anyone know anything about her parents. I was thinking that either Cynthia changed her name or her parents changed their names while living in Arkansas. I know that residents of Arkansas resented Indians moving into their communities. And yes I have cemetery records. Cynthia is buried in Arkansas. I said earlier that Cynthia had died in childbirth and her baby died a few days later, actually I had it backwards. Her baby died either during or soon after birth and Cynthia died a few days later. Her husband, Absalom, joined the Civil War not too long after that and he got sick and died during the war. My gg-grandmother and her siblings were raised by their paternal grandmother Nancy Liles. Martha was born in Arkansas in 1862, Cynthia was born in Arkansas in 1834. I have census records from 1850 and up for all of these. I have made my searches for the Nelsons & Cavanah/Kavanaughs from about 1800 through 1860, in Mississippi and Arkansas too because Martha said that both grandparents had died before she was born. I have no idea when Cynthia’s parents came to Arkansas.

I have tried to do the soundex searches and wildcard searches, but I’m obviously lacking the right keywords because I have been unsuccessful so far. This is the area I am really lacking, using the search feature on ancestry.

This is the information I do have so far:

Cynthia (Colinger) or Kavanaugh, or Nelson was born in Arkansas in 1834 supposedly in Polk (city/county?), Ark (I have no birth or death records for her, only census records and information from ancestry). Its possible her parents died in that area. My gg-grandmother was born in Newton Co, AR where Cynthia died in 1863. Cynthia is buried at Sexton Cemetery, outside of Mt Judea in Newton County, AR.

One other thing, I do have the death certificate for Martha, my gg-grandmother, but it has absolutely no information on where she was born or who her parents were, those lines were left blank. Cynthia & Absolam were married in 1849, and had children:
Joseph Carroll Liles – 1852 – 1927
John W Liles – 1853 – 1925
Mary A Liles – 1855 – 1920
Martha Adeline Liles – 1862 – 1916
Cynthia G Liles – 1863 -1863 (buried next to her mother in Sexton cemetery)

That’s all the information I have for Cynthia.

Here is the family history that I know is correct and can prove:

Martha was born in 1862 in Newton Co., AR
She married Bird Alexander Stephens in the same place she was born in 1878. They had 8 children:
John Harvey (Wendy) Stephens – 1878 – 1946
Nancy Ann Stephens – 1880 – 1962
Mary Alline Stephens – 1882 – 1931
Joseph Carroll Stephens – 1884 – 1961
Francis Henry Stephens – 1888 – 1942
Wiley Stephens – 1889 –
Tommie Delmane Stephens – 1898 – 1907
Pearl Stephens – 1902 –

Nancy Ann Stephens married Harmon Hughes Brown in Titus County sometime before 1900 – her parents had moved the family to Texas sometime between 1880 & 1900. They had 7 children:
Millie Belle Brown – 1898 – 1982
Melvin Hubert Brown – 1900 – 1972
Marvin Orville Brown – 1905 – 1975
Hattie Mae Brown – 1907 –
Ethel Brown – 1909 – 1992
Jewel Dean Brown – 1915 – 2005
Davis Eugene Brown – 1917 – 1998

Millie Belle Brown (my grandmother) married William Alfred Jackson sometime after 1920 either in OK or TX. William was from Lafayette County, MS, and he was also supposed to have had Choctaw blood, but I can not find any proof of this. Somehow he and my grandmother met when she was from Texas and he was from OK. They are both missing from early censuses. She is missing from 1910 & 1920 censuses, and he is missing from 1920 & 1930 censuses. Millie was living with her mother, Nancy in 1930 and her marriage status was D – however she and my grandfather apparently didn’t get divorced or got remarried because she had children with him after 1930:
Kenneth E Jackson – 1924 – 1998 (Kenneth was born in OK and adopted by my grandparents, and also supposedly was part Indian, but again, I have no proof for him)
Annie Faye Jackson 1931 – 2009 (My mother – she told me that she was born in Idabel OK, but so far I have not located her birth records. Apparently my grandmother moved back to OK to live for a short-time with my grandfather, all of the other children are born in Texas)
Eleanor Clarine Jackson 1933 –
Mary Dean Jackson – 1935 –
Donald Ray Jackson – 1938 – 1994

Annie Faye Jackson married Marvin Vincent Faver in Johnson County (TX) in 1962, (my parents) and I was born in Johnson County in April of 1963, their first child.

Delobar Delobar

posted on October 7, 2011

To clear up some info on my grandfather, William Jackson, he was born in MS, but his father moved the family to OK in the early 1900s. However, it had more to do with personal reasons for them to leave MS, rather than moving to Indian Territory, I think. They were not living in Indian Territory, so that’s obviously not the reason they moved, and I have not found any indication that William’s father had applied. Before learning what I know about Indian genealogy, I thought the reason William and my grandmother had “gone missing” was because they were living on a reservation or in Indian Territory. But I know now that they couldn’t have been unless they were intruders.

Delobar Delobar

posted on October 7, 2011

Also, I had Tomie’s information wrong – her name is Tommie Delmane Stephens

Delobar Delobar

posted on October 7, 2011 and updated on October 7, 2011

Aaagh…apparently I cut and pasted in the wrong place….Davis Eugene Brown is a child of Harmon & Nancy, not Millie & William. Sorry. Also, I just realized that I can edit my posts….:p

suzanne hamlet shatto suzanne hamlet shatto

posted on October 7, 2011

ok, offhand, this is what i see about the dawes commission deal. if there was ANY texas connection, they would have been reluctant to find native connection because several informal migrations occurred that went through texas but the trail of tears in the late 1830’s did not.

also, any references to living in AR in the 1830’s indicate that they are probably not choctaw. so bear that in mind. but they could be natives from another tribe. try looking at the location and seeing if there were any tribes in that area. location is a big indication when you are looking for a tribe. people did not move to arkansas territory BEFORE the treaty of rabbit creek was signed and the federal government decided to move natives to arkansas territory/indian territory/oklahoma.

choctaw is a southeastern tribe, mostly from mississippi alabama, and other southern states. there are choctaw tribes in texas, louisiana, alabama, mississippi now. maybe even some in arkansas. the hunting grounds sometimes ranged as far north as kentucky, with some bands of natives.
i think there are some choctaw in california as well, but this would have been a pretty extreme migration.
tribes are really associated bands of natives. these bands tended to rove.
but the louisiana, texas, and more western choctaw were there because of unofficial migrations.
the choctaw were not in arkansas/oklahoma/indian territory in the 1830’s generally. but perhaps there is another tribal affiliation.

the historical details of the time and locations, historical information about the tribe might inform you in your search.

this is how you need to get organized. you need to request help for one person at a time, not a whole line of people. you need dates, locations, children and spouse for that person. include references to any documents that you have, as these might give location, dates, and other information.

there is too much there and i cannot help with SO much work to be done on your line. please try to focus on one person and then we can go to the next.

this is where i would start, near the time period of the dawes roll:
Nancy Ann Stephens married Harmon Hughes Brown in Titus County sometime before 1900 – her parents had moved the family to Texas sometime between 1880 & 1900. They had 7 children:
Millie Belle Brown – 1898 – 1982
Melvin Hubert Brown – 1900 – 1972
Marvin Orville Brown – 1905 – 1975
Hattie Mae Brown – 1907 –
Ethel Brown – 1909 – 1992
Jewel Dean Brown – 1915 – 2005
Davis Eugene Brown – 1917 – 1998

but no location information. this is a BIG PROBLEM. no spouses. titus county, WHAT state?
did these people live in oklahoma at any time?
LOCATION is as important as DATES.

i don’t know why i can’t find census information on these people?
maybe location has something to do with it.
do you know where they were in the 1900-1930 time period?

again, one family, which documents do you have for them? location, dates, children and spouse. where were they buried? did you look for obituaries for them? do you have birth/death/marriage information and documents?

Delobar Delobar

posted on October 7, 2011 and updated on October 7, 2011

Suzanne,

Thanks again for your help. The missing censuses have been my biggest mystery, other than Cynthia. Millie Brown is my grandmother. I know firsthand that she and all of her siblings are buried in Mt Pleasant, Texas (Titus County) with the exception of Hattie Mae. I don’t know that much about Hattie Mae’s family other than she was married to Verbie Arnold and had a son named Norman. When Nancy applied to the Dawes commission at the same time her mother did, they were living in Ripley, TX, which is a small community outside Mt Pleasant, between Titus & Franklin/Red River counties. I don’t know for a fact where and when Cynthia (Nancy’s grandmother) was born, but information I have from family members on ancestry family trees is that she was born in 1834, which is four years after the Dancing Rabbit treaty was signed, and the Choctaw were first removed in the “Trail of Tears” in 1831. I have also found research that some Choctaws ended up living in Arkansas, and some just disappeared during this time altogether. Some of the research I have found mentions how some Arkansas residents did not want Indians in their community, and were opposed to them settling there but Choctaw did indeed move into and settle in Arkansas before and during the removal period.

http://www.arkansasheritage.com/discover/the_people/native_american/choctaw.aspx

http://theozarkmountains.com/heritage.htm

Ancestry records show that Cynthia was born in Pope County, Arkansas in 1834. I’m not really sure of the actual location where Cynthia was born, but census records shows her family living in Newton County, which is just north of Pope County, in 1850.

As far as Texas migration, this didn’t happen until my gg-grandmother Martha married her husband Bird Alexander Stephens and they moved to Texas along with some of the other Stephens family members, sometime before 1900. Martha had been raised by her paternal grandmother, who probably didn’t raise the children in reference to their Indian heritage. Martha may have been informed mostly of her heritage through the “old Aunt Adeline Pack” who apparently knew her mother and grandparents. I also found a reference to a Adeline Pack on a family website that has information about the Liles family also:

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~rkinfolks/stories/blackwood.html

I’m not for certain the Adeline Pack Martha referred to in her application is listed on this site, but it seems possible since they were from some of the same families (Liles & Pack). Martha may have had some of her information wrong about where Adeline was raised and how she knew the family.

I know for a fact that my grandfather, William Alfred Jackson was living in Oklahoma in the early 1900s. My grandmother lived in OK with him when they were first married, where they adopted their first child, Kenneth. I don’t know the exact date of their marriage, but Kenneth was born in 1924, so it had to be sometime around that time and before 1930. William was married to his first wife “Frona” Petty in 1910, census shows him and her living with his father Bill Jackson in Barnard, Hughes County, OK. Frona died in 1919, and William and their two daughters seemed to have disappeared because they are not found in 1920. I did find one of the daughters living with her mother’s sister and husband in 1930. William is missing from the 1920 & 1930 censuses, but his father Bill remained in OK until he died in 1931. My mother was born in Idabel a couple of months after her grandfather passed away, so I’m assuming that this is when her parents moved back to Texas. I assume my grandparents got back together sometime after the 1930 census, when my grandmother and their adopted son Kenneth were living in Titus Co with Nancy Stephens Brown and some of the other siblings. My mom was born in Idabel Ok, 1931. For my grandmother to have met my grandfather, her family could have been living in Oklahoma sometime during 1910 and 1930. I know that my grandmother’s uncle, John Harvey (Wendy) Stephens and one of her other uncles were living in Oklahoma. John is supposedly buried in an Indian cemetery in Idabel OK. So its very possible that Nancy & Harmon were living in Oklahoma during that time. My gg-grandmother Martha died in Franklin Co, TX in 1916 and census records show she and Bird were still living in Texas in 1910. Her husband Bird married his second wife in 1917 and as far as I know he continued to live in Texas until he passed away in 1944.

I hope that the 1940 census may answer some of my questions but I have resigned myself to the fact that I may never be able to prove any information prior to Martha’s birth. The fact that Martha’s grandparents died before she was born and both of her parents died when she was very young does not help of course.

suzanne hamlet shatto suzanne hamlet shatto

posted on October 7, 2011

this is a very long narrative.
the 1940 census will be available in 2012. it will take some time to build the 1940 index, since i am familiar with the process. hopefully the census bureau has given access to ancestry people to film the 1940 census, but you never know. i remember, from the 1930 process, that many of us were building indexes for different locations for rootsweb. we’d just choose an area to do. they’d give us the image online and we constructed an image. ancestry is now affiliated with rootsweb, so all decisions will come from ancestry on that. i may volunteer again.

but ancestry, for 1930, put the images up, put up indexes with lots of misspellings and mistakes. then their customers corrected them when they looked for people that were in their family.

we will see what will happen this time, lol.

in any case, you will be far better off if you know where your ancestor lived. the images are likely to be public first.

as far as your requests, you have many interesting stories. but you have to organize your requests more succinctly. please reread your posts and see what i am talking about. when i see these long paragraphs, i have to make sure i am in a comfortable chair. your posts are conversational, interesting, but not organized well for genealogical research.

have you ever seen a family tree on rootsweb? this is the way you should organize your post.
NONE of the people referred to will have a name like “my grandmother”. you need to give NAMES and a consistent relation to a particular person, not describe your whole family structure.
if you refer to a first and middle name, PLEASE refer to the surname. please indicate a married name different from the maiden name.

i don’t know which people are biological and which adopted.
your posts go back and forth with different branches of the family, are not organized chronologically.
relationships are not very clear.
you need much less writing and brief facts.
i am trying to help you. there is a style of speaking, there is a vocabulary. there is a way of speaking to organize and give salient facts.

ok, i see you also have a family tree on rootsweb but many of the “facts” are not on the tree.

this person has a lot of people in their family tree, so they might not be a very close relative:
ID: I61135
Name: William Alfred JACKSON
NUMB: 61135
Change Date: 1 MAY 2008
Sex: M
Birth: Quality: 3 1 16 JUN 1883 in ,, MS

Marriage 1 Sophronia PETTY b: 9 JUL 1893 in Petty, Lamar Co., TX

Married: 2 20 FEB 1910 in Hughes Co.,, OK

do you see the difference in what you have been writing?

this one is better:
Name: William Alfred Jackson
Sex: M
Birth: 16 JUN 1883 in Lafayette Co., MS
Death: 24 AUG 1965 in Titus Co., TX
Burial: Bridges Chapel Cem., Mt. Pleasant, TX

Father: William Malone Jackson b: 31 JUL 1858 in Winston Co., MS
Mother: Susan S. Kelly b: 22 OCT 1855 in Lafayette Co., MS

Marriage 1 Sophronia Mae Petty b: 9 JUL 1893 in TX

Married: 20 FEB 1910

Children

Ima Irene Jackson b: 22 NOV 1910 in Holdenville, Hughes Co., OK Living Jackson

ok, nonetheless, you need to write to all of these people who post about your family and share information. share your documents and ask them about their documents. cousins usually enjoy hearing from other cousins.

i am trying to figure out how this person is in relation to the rest of your family tree.

let us start ALL OVER. there are too many people in your post and i am not sure what information goes with this people. please limit yourself to one person. it is helpful to mention the likely father and mother.

who are you looking for.
give dates, locations, children and spouse. give documents that you have. if census, indicate location of census, such as

Source Citation: Year: 1930; Census Place: Beat 1, Wilkinson, Mississippi; Roll: 1172; Page: 9A; Enumeration District: 2;

if a birth/death document or other document, give city,county and state, also date of document. briefly describe content.

Delobar Delobar

posted on October 7, 2011 and updated on October 7, 2011

Suzanne,

You have hit me on the head – I admit I have difficulty explaining things in a neat, concise, manner. I often digress when explaining things, and I know that I jump back and forth. I appreciate your constructive criticism, and I will try to do a better job of organizing my thoughts. (I’m pretty sure I’m an ADHD kid who was never diagnosed, lol!!) I did start a tree on rootsweb, but most of my information is on ancestry, where I begun my research. Here is a link, if the link doesn’t work, you can search for the Faver/Barganski/Sharp family tree. That should give you most of the information I have given in my earlier posts, as well as information on the rest of my family – plus photos of some of my ancestors.

http://trees.ancestry.com/tree/27629040/family?fpid=12001965464

Delobar Delobar

posted on October 7, 2011

Thank you for being so patient! You have been a big help!

Delobar Delobar

posted on October 7, 2011

Oh, and I have been contacting people about my tree, I have found a Stephens cousin, a Liles cousin, Jackson cousin, Faver cousin, and I have written others who have not contacted me back so far. I am definitely glad I have found some cousins that I didn’t know existed, thanks to genealogy!

Delobar Delobar

posted on October 7, 2011

I just recently discovered a website that has letters and photos of my Brown ancestors: http://pettiscountypioneers.com – I also contacted with the person who built that site, and she is a cousin as well. She informed me that my gggg-grandfather, John Brown (who may or may not be from Ireland) established head rights in the Republic of Texas. I had only learned of my Brown ancestry a couple of months ago. I do have a lot of interesting stories in my ancestry, and would love to compile it all in a book sometime in the future, for my children and grandchildren. I have several ancestors who fought in the Civil War, on both sides, and two of my ancestors (Stephens & Faver) who fought in the American Revolution, but I have not applied to any of these associations yet. The lady who owns the Pettis County website is applying for DRT through John Brown and is going to help me apply once she is accepted, and she is also a DAR member and is trying to help me with my DAR ancestors. I feel very proud of my heritage, all of it, which is why I want to be able to find the links to my Choctaw ancestry, if I can.

Delobar Delobar

posted on October 7, 2011

I’m also a photo volunteer for findagrave, and am working on that site, trying to link my family members on there as well.

Delobar Delobar

posted on October 8, 2011 and updated on October 8, 2011

I changed Cynthia’s name on ancestry to Cloinger. Just from findagrave.com I found that there are not too many Colingers. The one Colinger I found in Newton Co., Arkansas on findagrave was actually a Cloinger, because the military had misspelled his last name and he never changed it back. There are quite a few Cloingers buried in Arkansas. But that still doesn’t explain why her name differs from what Martha Liles Stephens said her mother’s parents last names were in her interview.

Delobar Delobar

posted on October 8, 2011 and updated on October 8, 2011

As you can see from my family tree, I have quite a lot of information about the newest generations, the only problem I am having right now is determining just exactly who Cynthia Colinger/Cloinger/Nelson/Kavanaugh Liles really was and her ancestry. I only gave you the list of people in my family to establish my connection to them. But I definitely see what you are saying about how I’m presenting the information, and will try to do better. I have most of the information about my grandmother’s family, (Millie Brown, daughter of Nancy Stephens Brown) where they were from (although those missing 20 years give me doubts about where some of the Browns were born). I know that Millie & Melvin were both born in TX, from the Dawes application. But as to where the other Browns were born, that’s a different story. The 1930 census shows the children who are living with Nancy (who were born during the missing years) to have been born in TX however.