Choctaw Nation of Oklahoma

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Finding my g-g-g-father

Cory Ford Cory Ford

posted on July 22, 2010

I am told my g-g-g-father’s name was Ira Fish. I have a picture of him. I have traced my family to his daughter, Ora Mae Vaughn, but I can’t seem to find him anywhere. My grandmother told me many times she was Choctaw. I hope someone can help.
Cory

suzanne hamlet shatto suzanne hamlet shatto

posted on July 23, 2010

ira fish>ora mae fish m. ? vaughn

no dates, no location, no children for ora, no spouses in your post. there is an ora fish on the dawes roll. i don’t know if this is your family..
Dawes Card Information

tribe last first middle age sex blood card roll misc type
Choctaw McDowell Jane 0 F MCR340 P
Choctaw McDowell Walter 0 M MCR340 P
Choctaw Vaughn Allen 0 M MCR340 P
Choctaw Vaughn Mary C 0 F MCR340 P
Choctaw Vaughn Robert 1 M NR MCR340 MCR
Choctaw Vaughn Mary J 4 F NR MCR340 MCR
Choctaw Vaughn Ora M 6 M NR MCR340 MCR
Choctaw Vaughn Victor K 8 M NR MCR340 MCR
Choctaw Vaughn Arthur C 11 M NR MCR340 MCR
Choctaw Vaughn Walter A 11 M NR MCR340 MCR
Choctaw Vaughn Edna 15 F NR MCR340 MCR
Choctaw Vaughn Auth 32 F IW MCR340 MCR
Choctaw Vaughn Robert S 39 M NR MCR340 MCR

http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/finalroll.php
if it is your family, you should request a copy of the enrollment application and the census card. you should get a copy of the testimony about the family.
testimony:
http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/oklahoma/tribes/vaught_duncan_m_c_r.htm

these names were very common. i am finding a lot of records for both names but without other information i cannot narrow this down.
fish and vaughn are common surnames in oklahoma.
i don’t know if ora’s maiden name was fish. i don’t know her spouse’s name. i don’t know when or where either of them lived.

genealogists use names, dates, locations, children and spouses to match records. if you have a common surname, you need to give more information rather thann less. if you post about women, it is helpful to include the maiden name and the married name and designate which one is the maiden name.

first of all, heritage and tribal enrollment are two different things. many times natives didn’t apply for enrollment because 1) they didn’t qualify, 2) they were philosophically opposed to enrollment, 3) they didn’t have documentation, or 4) they were mississippi choctaw and their ancestor had accepted land or benefits in lieu of tribal enrollment.

the dawes roll was taken 1896-1906, so you should trace your ancestors down to that time period. mostly, they had to be living in oklahoma by that time and agree to live there permanently.

if the name is common, you may find too many possible records.

the tribe has an excellent information to help you. it is found under genealogy advocacy.
http://choctawnation.com/services/departments/community-services/

mississippi choctaw and choctaw tribe explained here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choctaw_Trail_of_Tears

i have collected many resources over the years. if you want to write to me, shamlet76@gmail.com and request the choctaw resourcce list, i will be glad to send it to you.

i am just a volunteer that wants to empower people to learn how to do genealogy.

suzanne hamlet shatto

Cory Ford Cory Ford

posted on July 23, 2010 and updated on July 23, 2010

I assume her name is to have been Ora Mae Fish when she was born, somewhere around 1900. She died in St. Louis, Mo. in 1953. She was my great grandmother. Her father was Ira Fish, the story I am told is that shortly after Ora was born, her mother died, so her father (Ira) sent her to Mo. to live with his sister. I don’t know how true that is. I don’t know of any siblings. I do know that her name is listed on the marriage certificate as Ora Vaughn when she married my great grandfather Jesse Albert Permenter. They had 4 girls, Tessi Bell, Magaline, Nadine(my grandmother), Jessica, And 1 boy named Earschel. She (Ora) remarried in 1942 to a man named Charles E Herndon. I also found Ora in a U.S. census of 1910 living with a Nancy Vaughn, but she is listed as being white. I asked my Dad what his grandmother looked like and he said, “just like her father in that picture”. He’s talking about the picture I have of Ira Fish. I asked if he was sure and he said she lived with him and his aunt for 10 or so years in St. Louis before she died. So,she was definately Native American. I’m not sure if his name was Ira Fish but it is what I have been told. The story comes from my Dad’s cousin in Florida.
I really appreciate people like youself who volunteer thier time to help people.
Cory

suzanne hamlet shatto suzanne hamlet shatto

posted on July 23, 2010

when people registered for social security 1/1/1937, they submitted delayed birth certificates for proof of age. their relatives had to give affidavits. you should get a copy of ora’s delayed birth certificate.

you should also get a copy of her social security application, as this will help you with significant dates/locations, spouse.
btw, missouri has state archives that are very helpful. just search for “missouri state archives” and online databases for a link. http://www.sos.mo.gov/archives/resources/ordb.asp
they have other records available that are not yet online.
i am guessing that pemiscot county is not online yet.
Pemiscot County Vital RecordsPemiscot County Health Center
801 East Reed St.
P.O. Box 531
Hayti, MO 63851
(573) 359-1656
Pemiscot County Courthouse and contents burned in 1883.

http://www.vitalrec.com/mocounties3.html

Source Citation: Year: 1930; Census Place: Pascola, Pemiscot, Missouri; Roll 1217; Page: 16A; Enumeration District: 25; Image: 103.0.
census record here.
this says ora was b. MO, father b. MO, mother b. IL.
children b. MO. they are on the next census page.

Source Citation: Year: 1920;Census Place: Pascola, Pemiscot, Missouri; Roll T625_939; Page: 7A; Enumeration District: 171; Image: 466
ora was b. MO, father b. MMO, mother b. il.
john is albert/jesse’s father, and will is his brother.

and you already have this, i assume:
Missouri Marriage Records, 1805-2002
about Ora Vaughn
Name: Ora Vaughn
Marriage Date: 5 Apr 1916
Marriage Location: Pascola, Pemiscot, MO
Marriage County: Pemiscot
Spouse Name: Albert Permenter

World War I Draft Registration Cards, 1917-1918
about Albert Permenter
Name: Albert Permenter
County: Pemiscot
State: Missouri
Birthplace: Missouri
Birth Date: 5 Jun 1891
Race: Caucasian (White)
FHL Roll Number: 1683496
DraftBoard: 0

this card can be printed on ancestry.com

Source Citation: Year: 1910; Census Place: Pascola, Pemiscot, Missouri; Roll T624_804; Page: 7B; Enumeration District: 150; Image: 790.
she is nancy’s granddaughter. nancy was b. IL, parents b. TN.
ora was b. MO parents b. IL

1900 census:
Name Age
John Vaughn 58
Nancy Vaughn 56
Artie Vaughn 15

Source Citation: Year: 1900; Census Place: Braggadocio, Pemiscot, Missouri; Roll T623_880; Page: 19B; Enumeration District: 89.
i think it depends whether the son john and nancy is the father or the daughter of john and nancy is the mother. this will help you with the vaughn/fish surname conflict.

just from this, it appears that the oral history is not matching the documents well. so you need to get documents about ora and then you will know more about her parents.

genealogists use names, dates, locations, children and spouses to match records. if you have a common surname, you need to give more information rather thann less. if you post about women, it is helpful to include the maiden name and the married name and designate which one is the maiden name.

first of all, heritage and tribal enrollment are two different things. many times natives didn’t apply for enrollment because 1) they didn’t qualify, 2) they were philosophically opposed to enrollment, 3) they didn’t have documentation, or 4) they were mississippi choctaw and their ancestor had accepted land or benefits in lieu of tribal enrollment.

the dawes roll was taken 1896-1906, so you should trace your ancestors down to that time period. mostly, they had to be living in oklahoma by that time and agree to live there permanently.

if the name is common, you may find too many possible records.

the tribe has an excellent information to help you. it is found under genealogy advocacy.
http://choctawnation.com/services/departments/community-services/

mississippi choctaw and choctaw tribe explained here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choctaw_Trail_of_Tears

i have collected many resources over the years. if you want to write to me, shamlet76@gmail.com and request the choctaw resourcce list, i will be glad to send it to you.

i am just a volunteer that wants to empower people to learn how to do genealogy.

suzanne hamlet shatto

Cory Ford Cory Ford

posted on July 23, 2010

You said there is an Ora Fish on the Dawes roll. I could not find Ora Fish on the roll. Could you direct me to where you found this?

suzanne hamlet shatto suzanne hamlet shatto

posted on July 24, 2010

nono, an ora vaughn on the dawes roll.
http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/finalroll.php
partial names are ok for searching,

there are no ora fish records on the dawes roll.

no ira fish records either.

many choctaw did not get to oklahoma by 1900 in order to apply for enrollment. those that did not were called mississippi choctaw.

many natives lived off reservation too and didn’t apply for enrollment with any tribe. in this case, it might be very difficult to find native affiliation.

use the dawes website to look at other native census, database, rolls, on the left of the webpage and at the bottom.

Cory Ford Cory Ford

posted on July 25, 2010

I am sorry to bother you with my ignorance of computer research but I can not seem to locate the Dawes rolls that show Ora Vaughn thru the web address you provided me. I am not very computer savy, would you mind giving me the exact instructions to access this info.

suzanne hamlet shatto suzanne hamlet shatto

posted on July 25, 2010

copy and paste this webpage into your address box.
http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/finalroll.php

then go to that page.

that is the dawes roll, with other native links at the bottom and on the side.