Choctaw Nation of Oklahoma

The Great Seal of the Choctaw Nation
RSS

Lina (B: 1856) and Susie (B: 1890)

LaKisha David LaKisha David

posted on November 9, 2013

Hello,

Thank you for any assistance you provide in helping me to know my family members. I’m searching for three people and I’ll start with the youngest first.

Susie Jones, born about 1890:
I’m not sure where she was born, but by 1910, she was living in Rapides, Louisiana and married to Buck Jim Voorhies. She may was born in Louisiana, but I’m not certain.

Lina, born about 1856:
According to my family history, she is from Oklahoma. By 1880, she was living in Rapides, Louisiana and married to James Voorhies (who, at one point, went by the name of Jacque Toussain).

Millie, born about 1803:
Millie was enslaved and, at one point, had a slave master named John Say. She was sold to Samuel Glass (and Mary Glass) 10 Aug 1811 and from that point lived in Marksville, Louisiana.

Any assistance at all in locating more information about my grandmothers would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.

LaKisha David

LaKisha David LaKisha David

posted on November 9, 2013

Also, Lina’s surname may have been Washington.

suzanne hamlet shatto suzanne hamlet shatto

posted on November 9, 2013

this is not enough information about millie. no spouse, no children, no date of death/place of death.

you don’t identify what documents you already have, where you got the information.

some of the information doesn’t make a lot of sense.
james voorhies is probably not buck jim voorhies but both married choctaw women? since there are no children listed, i don’t know if one of these names was a child of another person in your list.

i am not sure of maiden names or married names.

a migration east from oklahoma is very rare.

if natives were on the federal census, then they were living off-reservation and taxed. natives living on-reservation were on native census records and not taxed. the native census records and native databases.

if natives lived off-reservation, they may not have had the evidence required to enroll in a tribe. while you might be looking at tribal heritage as qualification for enrollment in a tribe, each tribe had specific requirements for membership.

louisiana recognizes a jena choctaw tribe. you should contact them.

U.S., World War I Draft Registration Cards, 1917-1918 about James Voorhies
Name: James Voorhies
County: Rapides
State: Louisiana
Birth Date: 12 Feb 1881
Race: Black
Draft Board: 2

nearest relative is susie voorhies, rfd #2, alexandria, rapids, LA
he signed with an x as his mark.
he’s a farmer b. 12 Feb 1881
the card is dated 12 sep 1912, but it must be 1917 or 1918, as this was when the draft occurred for world war I.

1900 United States Federal Census about Buck J Voorhies
Name: Buck J Voorhies
[Buck F Voorhies]
Age: 17
Birth Date: Nov 1883
Birthplace: Louisiana
Home in 1900: Police Jury Ward 1, Avoyelles, Louisiana
Race: Black
Gender: Male
Relation to Head of House: Son
Marital Status: Single
Father’s Name: James Voorhies
Father’s Birthplace: Louisiana
Mother’s Birthplace: Louisiana
Occupation: View on Image
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
James Voorhies 67
Luida Voorhies 18
Buck J Voorhies 17
Rose Voorhies 22
William Maxwell 70
Source Citation: Year: 1900; Census Place: Police Jury Ward 1, Avoyelles, Louisiana; Roll: 558; Page: 21B; Enumeration District: 0012; FHL microfilm: 1240558.

Louisiana, Statewide Death Index, 1900-1949 about Jim Vorics
Name: Jim Vorics
Death Date: 19 Apr 1938
Estimated Birth Year: 1882
Age: 56 Years
Gender: Male
Race: Negro (Black)

Parish: Rapides
Certificate Number: 5112
Volume: 12

1920 United States Federal Census about Jim Voorhies
Name: Jim Voorhies
Age: 35
Birth Year: abt 1885
Birthplace: Louisiana
Home in 1920: Lamourie, Rapides, Louisiana
Race: Mulatto
Gender: Male
Relation to Head of House: Head
Marital Status: Married
Spouse’s Name: Susie Voorhies
Father’s Birthplace: Louisiana
Mother’s Birthplace: Louisiana
Home Owned: Rent
Able to Read: No
Able to Write: No
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Jim Voorhies 35
Susie Voorhies 32
Indiana Voorhies 10
Mary Voorhies 8
Jessie Voorhies 6
Chester Voorhies 4
Margorie Voorhies 2 1/12
Source Citation: Year: 1920; Census Place: Lamourie, Rapides, Louisiana; Roll: T625_626; Page: 14A; Enumeration District: 60; Image: 975.

1920 United States Federal Census about Susie Voorhies
Name: Susie Voorhies
Age: 32
Birth Year: abt 1888
Birthplace: Louisiana
Home in 1920: Lamourie, Rapides, Louisiana
Race: Black
Gender: Female
Relation to Head of House: Wife
Marital Status: Married
Spouse’s Name: Jim Voorhies
Father’s Birthplace: Louisiana
Mother’s Birthplace: Louisiana
Able to Read: No
Able to Write: No
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Jim Voorhies 35
Susie Voorhies 32
Indiana Voorhies 10
Mary Voorhies 8
Jessie Voorhies 6
Chester Voorhies 4
Margorie Voorhies 2 1/12

1900 United States Federal Census about Susan Jones
Name: Susan Jones
Age: 9
Birth Date: Aug 1890
Birthplace: Louisiana
Home in 1900: Police Jury Ward 1, Lafayette, Louisiana
Race: Black
Gender: Female
Relation to Head of House: Daughter
Marital Status: Single
Father’s Name: Henry Jones
Father’s Birthplace: Louisiana
Mother’s Name: Emely Jones
Mother’s Birthplace: Louisiana
Occupation: View on Image
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Henry Jones 58
Emely Jones 49
Cornelius Jones 16
Lizzy Jones 14
Henry Jones 12
Susan Jones 9
Laodis Guidry 11
Mary Foot 4
Irven Mouton 2
Alida Millian 17
Joseph Sice 15
Source Citation: Year: 1900; Census Place: Police Jury Ward 1, Lafayette, Louisiana; Roll: 567; Page: 17A; Enumeration District: 0039; FHL microfilm: 1240567.

it appears that some people have attached records that are probably not related to these people also. that usually means that people didn’t acquire documents but just did internet genealogy matching names. it is important to acquire documents. this might be more difficult because vital records are usually offline but you will have some assurance that the person you are researching is indeed your relative and not someone else.

i usually start with the death and work backwards in time.
the range of people you are researching goes back about 100 years. you should do one generation at a time, collecting documents such as birth/death/marriage/cemetery record/military record/land record. childrens’ records often point to the parents. if you get stuck, then review the childrens’ records again. they fix a family to a date and location.

genealogists use names, dates, locations, children and spouses to match records. if you have a common surname, you need to give more information rather than less. if you post about women, it is helpful to include the maiden name and the married name and designate which one is the maiden name.

start with what you know, gather documentation, then you can go backward in time. so get your birth certificate, your parents’ birth certificates and marriage license and then you can start on your grandparents. if someone passed away after 1/1/1937, they probably have a social security application on file. if you ask a government agency for a birth certificate, and they were born before 1929, they might have submitted a delayed birth certificate. death certificates, cemetery information and obituaries are helpful. you can usually get a copy of an obituary, newspaper mentions such as birth of a child or marriage, through the interlibrary loan program – see your local public library for this. i usually start with the death and work toward the person’s birth. military records and pension records can be helpful. census records can tell you where they were at particular times, names of family members. the census records up to 1940 are available, although the 1890 census was largely destroyed.

you will need to know who the family members were 1830-1930 or so, where they were located. a good way to do this is by census records.
the first time period to concentrate on is 1900-1930 because most tribes enrolled during this period.
federal census records can help you here. you can get access through your local public library – two databases: 1) heritage quest, 2) ancestry.com.

the dawes roll shows the applicants to the five major tribes 1896-1906 in indian territory/oklahoma. if your family applied for this, there would be a census card, dawes application, other supporting documents and testimony. these are located at NARA
http://www.archives.gov
try the fort worth, TX office.
there are 63 tribes in oklahoma but only the 5 major tribes list applicants on the dawes roll taken 1896-1906 in indian territory/oklahoma.

requirements for enrollment for several oklahoma tribes:
http://thorpe.ou.edu/OILS/blood.html
What are tribal membership requirements?

Tribal enrollment criteria are set forth in tribal constitutions, articles of incorporation or ordinances. The criterion varies from tribe to tribe, so uniform membership requirements do not exist.

Two common requirements for membership are lineal decendency from someone named on the tribe’s base roll or relationship to a tribal member who descended from someone named on the base roll. (A “base roll” is the original list of members as designated in a tribal constitution or other document specifying enrollment criteria.) Other conditions such as tribal blood quantum, tribal residency, or continued contact with the tribe are common.

http://www.narf.org/nill/resources/enrollment.htm

enrollment is a two step process. first you have to get your CDIB card from the BIA to show your degree of blood/eligibility to enroll in a particular tribe, and then you have to apply to the tribe for acceptance, if you meet their membership requirements.

Tribal Government personnel, usually an Enrollment Clerk, located at a regional or agency office processes applications for Certificates of Degree of Indian Blood (CDIB) and Indian Preference in Employment, BIA Form 4432, to anyone who can provide documentation that he or she descends from an American Indian tribe.
http://www.bia.gov/WhatWeDo/ServiceOverview/TribalGov/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_American_recognition_in_the_United_States
this article has many resources.
however i find the paragraph on “Recognition for individuals” to be somewhat insensitive.

i think someone should rewrite that paragraph.

What are the most typical requirements for membership?
Each tribe has a base roll which was established, usually, in the early 20th century, listing the members of the tribe
at that time. Your first challenge will be to prove direct lineal descent from someone listed on that base roll. Then
you must prove that you have the required level of blood quantum – the percentage of your genetic make-up that
is native by bloodline. Most tribes require a 1/4 blood quantum – that is, you must be at least one-fourth Native
American – but note that the Eastern Band of the Cherokees requires that you be only 1/16 or higher to join, and the Cherokee Nation has no minimum quantum restriction, so long as you can prove descent. There may be other conditions for membership as well: requirements for tribal residency or continued contact with the tribe are common.
http://freedomcenter.org/_media/pdf/genealogy/16.%20Native%20American%20-%20Tribal%20Membership.pdf

choctaw enrollment, forms, FAQs
http://www.choctawnation.com/services/departments/enrollment-cdib-and-tribal-membership/

obituaries through the oklahoma choctaw tribe is through the history link for the tribe:
http://www.choctawnation.com/history/

social security application for a deceased person:
http://www.ssa.gov/foia/html/foia_guide.htm
form SS-5.

your public library probably has a subscription to heritage quest and ancestry.com. fold3.com is another useful database for native records and military records, but they are a subscription. however, many times, their month’s subscription price is less than the price of a dawes packet. you can google fold3 and your ancestor’s name to see if your relative’s dawes packet is available at fold3.
http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/final-rolls.htm

http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/choctaw-indian-research.htm
access genealogy’s collection of information
if you are from another tribe, use the links at the right.
if you are from an associated tribe, see the several possible links on the webpage.

bear in mind that many records are not online. always collect documents, as just the reference to a relative in an index informs you that a document is available.

death records:
death certificate: state vital records or if very old, state archives. ask for the person’s name at the time of death. you can look at death indices, such as the social security death index 1964-present for a date of death on rootsweb.com or ancestry.com.
obituary: see your local public library, interlibrary loan program. ask for the person’s name at the time of death. approximate date of death is helpful. if old, state historical society or state archives might have historical newspapers.
cemetery record: try findagrave.com or interment.net. ask for the person’s name at the time of death. if you find a relative, you can click on the county or cemetery to see if others with the same surname are buried there.

marriage records:
state vital records office, county clerk or if old, state archives or state historical society.

birth records:
state vital records office, or if old, state archives or state historical society. if the birth was before 1940, ask for a birth certificate or a delayed birth certificate. many people had to get delayed birth certificates when social security came into effect because they had to show proof of age. this will be under the name used at the time of birth.

census records:
you will want to search for census records 1940 on down to the birth of your relative. the federal census was taken every 10 years, however the 1890 census was largely destroyed by fire. there are also some state census records and native census records and native rolls. ancestry.com and heritage quest are two databases that include many census records. many native census records kept by NARA (http://www.archives.gov) are transcribed at accessgenealogy.

first of all, heritage and tribal enrollment are two different things. many times natives didn’t apply for enrollment because 1) they didn’t qualify, 2) they were philosophically opposed to enrollment, 3) they didn’t have documentation, or 4) they were mississippi choctaw and their ancestor had accepted land or benefits in lieu of tribal enrollment. some mississippi choctaw were accepted by adoption or lawsuit.

for those people who do not yet have a card, you should research the 1900-1940 census to know approximate dates of birth, birthplaces, family members. this will also tell you if someone is more likely to be on the freedman roll or as applicants to the dawes roll taken 1896-1906 in indian territory/oklahoma for the five major tribes.

applicants on the dawes roll can be found here:
http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/finalroll.php
partial names are ok. look at the guide link for explanation of the codes.

when you find a possible name, then click on the card# in the card column to see the family group. if it is your family group, and they were likely enrolled, then you can search the oklahoma historical society’s dawes roll link to get the enrollment #’s for particular family members.
http://www.okhistory.org/research/dawes

if your family was enrolled by council action early in the process or was enrolled by lawsuit, they might not appear on the oklahoma historical society website. you would have to check with the tribe on that.

even if your family was rejected by the dawes process, you may want the testimony, census card, application information for your genealogical purposes.

the federal census will also help you decide which state to contact for vital records.

the dawes roll was taken 1896-1906, so you should trace your ancestors down to that time period. mostly, they had to be living in oklahoma by that time and agree to live there permanently.

history of the dawes roll
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dawes_Act
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dawes_Commission
wikipedia entries are sometimes opinionated; entered by volunteers.

helpful information about tribal enrollment
http://www.felihkatubbe.com/ChoctawNation/TribalMembership.html

freedmen information:
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~ewyatt/_borders/
http://digital.library.okstate.edu/encyclopedia/entries/F/FR016.html
http://www.african-nativeamerican.com/8-chocfreed.htm
http://www.okhistory.org/research/dawes

2 ways to search:
http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/finalroll.php
this will let you enter partial names to get card#. click on the card# in the card column and you can see other names in that family.
other resources on the left and at the bottom of this webpage. native census records and databases are especially useful.

http://www.okhistory.org/research/dawes/index.php
this will give you card# (family group) and enrollment #. they have some native marriage records too. other oklahoma records listed at left.
if your relative was enrolled by court action, their name might not be on this list.
if the name is common, you may find too many possible records.
you can order the dawes packet from the oklahoma historical society website.

if you find a relative listed on the dawes roll, fold3 may have filmed the record and could be available online.
http://www.fold3.com/documents/46580455/dawes-packets/
other resources are NARA http://www.archives.gov

the five civilized tribes book put out by the department of the interior has testimony.
http://books.google.com/books/about/Five_civilized_tribes_in_Oklahoma.html?id=chATAAAAYAAJ
and you can read it online

and these are the microfilms at fort worth TX archives.
http://www.archives.gov/southwest/finding-aids/native-american-microfilm.html

there may be additional records about your relative:
contact NARA http://www.archives.gov for these and other records listed on this webpage.

75.23 RECORDS OF THE COMMISSIONER TO THE FIVE CIVILIZED TRIBES 1852-1919
75.23.1 Records of the Dawes Commission
75.23.2 Records of the U.S. Indian Inspector for Indian Territory
75.23.3 General records of the Commissioner to the Five Civilized Tribes
http://www.archives.gov/research/guide-fed-records/groups/075.html
(Record Group 75)
1793-1989

http://okhistory.cuadra.com/star/public.html
oklahoma newspaper and archives search. some of these resources may be available through interlibrary loan/public library.
you can try school records in the oklahoma state archives, the oklahoma historical society and NARA.
http://www.odl.state.ok.us/oar/
http://www.okhistory.org/
these two resources might have historical newspapers and local history books. your public library/interlibrary loan program might also have access to newspapers and local history books.

http://www.archives.gov

as for stories, you can see if any of the relatives are mentioned in the oklahoma pioneer papers or oklahoma chronicles.

http://digital.libraries.ou.edu/whc/pioneer/
volumes are alphabetical by surname.
if an interview is not online, contact the host of these interviews.

http://www.okhistory.org/publications/chronicles

as for location for your family, you should look on the federal census 1900-1940 for your family and this will give you locations, family members. your local public library probably has a subscription to ancestry.com and heritage quest.

the tribe has an excellent information to help you. it is found under genealogy advocacy.
http://choctawnation.com/services/departments/community-services/
some obituaries:
http://www.choctawnation.com/history/obituaries/

NARA http://www.archives.gov/ federal records repository. the fort worth, TX office has archives for oklahoma and texas tribes. atlanta/morrow office has archives for the southeast tribes. many offices have microfilmed records for several tribes. note that this web address has changed recently from nara.gov.

freedmen info:
You can ONLY apply for Choctaw Nation Membership, AFTER you have obtained a CDIB card proving your Choctaw Blood lineage to a direct ancestor who actually enrolled, BY BLOOD. Freedmen DID NOT enroll By Blood. When US Congress closed the Final Dawes Commission Rolls, there were no provisions granting Freedmen any benefits after the Dawes Commission closed. The tribe Constitution states BY BLOOD. however, the documents (application, census card and testimony) may help you find out more about your heritage.

about blood quantum laws:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_quantum_laws
calculations about blood quantum:
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~wishawa4/Menominee%20Indians/quantum.htm

mississippi choctaw and choctaw tribe explained here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choctaw_Trail_of_Tears
http://www.choctaw.org/

jena choctaw tribe in louisiana:
http://www.jenachoctaw.org/

MOWA tribe
http://encyclopediaofalabama.org/face/Article.jsp?id=h-1368
http://www.uab.edu/uabmagazine/2009/july/losttribe
http://www.native-american-online.org/MOWA-Choctaw.htm
MOWA Band Of Choctaws Wilford Taylor 1080 Red Fox Road Mount Vernon, AL 36560 (251) 829-5500. E-Mail: chieftaylor@mowachoctaw.com

other choctaw tribes:
http://www.aaanativearts.com/choctaw-indians/index.html

chickasaw historical society
Historic Preservation and Repatriation Office
Phone: (580) 272-5325
Fax: (580) 272-5327
2020 E. Arlington, Suite 4, Ada, OK 74820
send mail to: P.O. Box 1548, Ada, OK 74821

chickasaw tribe
Chickasaw Nation Headquarters
520 East Arlington, Ada, OK 74820
Phone (580) 436-2603
Mailing address: P.O. Box 1548, Ada, OK 74821
http://www.chickasaw.net/index.htm

chickasaw genealogy archive center Tribal Library
Phone: (580) 310-6477
Fax: (580) 559-0773
1003 Chamber Loop, Ada, OK 74820
send mail to: P.O. Box 1548, Ada, OK 74821

http://www.okhistory.org/
oklahoma historical society
marriage records
http://www.okhistory.org/research/library/marriage.html
http://www.okgenweb.org/~okgarvin/kinard/chocmarriageindex.htm

other historical societies:
http://www.daddezio.com/society/hill/SH-OK-NDX.html
some oklahoma genealogical societies:
http://www.censusfinder.com/oklahoma-genealogy-society.htm
http://www.geneasearch.com/societies/socokla.htm

texas tribes
http://www.native-languages.org/texas.htm
http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/texas/index.htm
http://www.texasindians.com/
http://www.lsjunction.com/places/indians.htm

oklahoma tribes:
http://500nations.com/Oklahoma_Tribes.asp
http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/oklahoma/index.htm
http://www.cowboy.net/native/tribes.html
http://yvwiiusdinvnohii.net/OKTribes.htm

tribes in other locations:
http://www.ncsl.org/issues-research/tribal/list-of-federal-and-state-recognized-tribes.aspx

some links for the choctaw.
http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/tribes/choctaw/index.htm
i looked at the land records and those need a lot of work. i have no information about whether or when they will improve some of these categories.

types of records available for native americans:
pages 366-369 in particular although the entire native american chapter is helpful.
The Genealogist’s Companion and Sourcebook:
Guide to the Resources You Need for Unpuzzling Your Past
Emily Anne Croom
you can ask for these particular pages from your local public library. if they don’t have the book, you can get the pages through the interlibrary loan program.
native american records are discussed in pages 352-386.

Tracing ancestors among the Five Civilized Tribes: Southeastern Indians …
By Rachal Mills Lennon
this book could be accessed through the interlibary loan program also.

always find the state archives. some records are online, some records are not. but many times you can find a record not found in other places. you want to see also about newspaper mentions for obituaries, births, marriages in particular.

check courts for probate, civil and criminal cases, marriage records.

if your ancestors lived on a reservation, they might not appear on a federal census because they were not taxed.
http://www.okgenweb.org/~okgarvin/kinard/1860index.htm
1860 census, indian territory.

this book is a good read about the dawes roll and how they implemented it.
The Dawes Commission and the allotment of the Five Civilized Tribes, 1893-1914
By Kent Carter
and you can read this book online. your relatives’ testimony might be in the book.
http://www.archive.org/details/fivecivilizedtr00statgoog
see the menu at left. you can download it.
you should look at the enrollment application, census card and testimony. this post will tell you how to do that. these documents will tell you more about your heritage, but it won’t help you if your goal is to be enrolled in the choctaw tribe of oklahoma. some people were classed as mississippi choctaw if the family had a native heritage but didn’t qualify for enrollment in the tribe.

there are 63 tribes in oklahoma but only the five major tribes are on the dawes roll. look at your family’s location around 1900-1930 time period (census will help you there) and see if there was a tribe located nearby. it is possible that your relatives were affiliated with another tribe.

if they were mississippi choctaw, there is probably a land grant in MS/AL to a head of household called choctaw scrip land. this was given in lieu of tribal enrollment 1830-1880 time period. ancestry.com has a database of the MS and AL choctaw scrip land records, called mississippi or alabama land records. there are other land records in those databases too,, so you have to look at the authority/source cited. NARA http://www.archives.gov has those land record packages.

the mississippi choctaw were not removed from oklahoma. but they were largely rejected for tribal enrollment.

this website might help you in your search. some people are trying to transcribe applications.
http://www.us-census.org/native/choctaw_dawes.html
i do not know what they are trying to transcribe, but this is the volunteer page
http://www.us-census.org/states/graphics/status.htm

and this might be of interest to you:
http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/choctaw/rights-of-choctaws.htm
Rights of Mississippi Choctaws in the Choctaw Nation

http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/finalrolls/
Index to the Final Rolls of the Citizens and Freedmen of the Five Civilized Tribes in Indian Territory
the dawes roll is composed of applications to the five major tribes in oklahoma.

good advice about native research:
http://jenniferhsrn2.homestead.com/research2.html

if your relatives came from a different geographic location or belonged to a different tribe, try searching google for the state and tribes. you might find a contact for a state-recognized tribe or a federal recognized tribe.

this page can help you set up a targeted google search.
http://www.searchforancestors.com/google/searcher.html

penny postcards. this is a website that features pictures that were on postcards. click on the state to see the postcards that they have.
http://www.usgwarchives.org/special/ppcs/ppcs.html
if you have a penny postcard, you can click on submissions to add your penny postcard to the collection.

these searches will combine several possible search terms and give you the best matches.

i have collected many resources over the years. if you want to write to me, shamlet76@gmail.com and request the choctaw resource list, i will be glad to send it to you.

i am just a volunteer that wants to empower people to learn how to do genealogy.

suzanne hamlet shatto

LaKisha David LaKisha David

posted on November 9, 2013

Thank you, Suzzanne.

Yes, I should have mentioned what records I already had. And that researcher E. W. McDonald has done much research and compiled some of the information in a book called “The LaCroix Descendents…” I have attached the portion that pertains to my search here. Unfortunately, McDonald does not go into a lot of detail about these women, only that they were “Indian”, the younger two marrying into my family.

For Susan Jones, Jones is her maiden name.

Millie gave birth to James Voorhies. James Voorhies and Lina (maybe Washington) gave birth to Buck Jim Voorhies. Then Buck married Susie.

The women are the ones I’m searching about here.

attached:

LaKisha David LaKisha David

posted on November 9, 2013

I have a membership with ancestry.com so I do have the census records, one of them listing Lina as “Indian”. I was requesting guidance as to how to search for their ancestry short of me doing a DNA test.

suzanne hamlet shatto suzanne hamlet shatto

posted on November 9, 2013

the picture link on this website does not work. you get “page not found”. the tribe needs to fix this. i am not associated with the tribe.

before 1850, the records don’t give much detail on females. this is the handicap.

as far as the book, have you sought out the author? did you look at any footnotes? these might be clues to records. i have found that looking first for their location might help you find the sources that were considered by the author.

as far as a DNA test, it will be unsatisfying. i have taken DNA tests and you must know about your family line so that you can match common ancestors with your matches. if you don’t know ancestors well back in time, it will be difficult to match specific particles of DNA with others. i took a test two years ago and i have a well-developed tree, broad and deep. others that match with me do not usually have broad and deep tree. but with my matches, i concentrated on putting people in probable branches and test others against them to find more specific matches. on my mother’s side, i now have people matching most of the branches, so i can place new matches. i have found some common ancestors in this way. if you decide to do a DNA test, you might consider that strategy.

i would advise you to concentrate on the head of household and look for records about the females from the children and husband.

slaves had almost no records. estate papers of the master sometimes gave the slave’s name.

there is very little location information in your post. location is an important part of an identifier.

you replied to my post but didn’t address this at all:
usually start with the death and work backwards in time.
the range of people you are researching goes back about 100 years. you should do one generation at a time, collecting documents such as birth/death/marriage/cemetery record/military record/land record. childrens’ records often point to the parents. if you get stuck, then review the childrens’ records again. they fix a family to a date and location.

do you have a cemetery record? findagrave.com or interment.net might help. then contact the cemetery.

do you have a death record? state vital records for that.

do you have an obituary? see your local public library/interlibrary loan program. state archives and state historical societies might have historical newspapers.

did anyone apply for enrollment with a tribe? look at the jena choctaw tribe and see if one of your line applied for enrollment. then ask for membership requirements. you are trying to go back too far in time, if you are looking for a tribal connection. contact the jena choctaw and ask about membership requirements. have the names of your ancestors handy, along with dates and locations and spouses, so that you might be able to answer their questions about location and heritage.

start with what you know, gather records, then go backward in time. you seem to continue to want to look at 3 or more generations. i am telling you that finding records on one generation at a time is more important because you will find clues in those records.

i do not know if this author conducted an extensive search or not. but you will have to gather records for your line. it appears that the author based his knowledge about your family line on census information and estate papers.

post the census information.

this is the website of the choctaw tribe of oklahoma. you are posting about mixed race people who lived in louisiana. so you should also post to location email lists such as the jena choctaw and the geographic location and the surname location. rootsweb.com and genealogy.com have such email lists.

the book pages that list your family do not indicate that any in your family was from oklahoma.

mixed race people did have difficulty proving heritage due to slavery, race issues, and the fact that there was no designated reservation in louisiana. still, the native tribes that stayed in louisiana tried to become tribes.

http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/choctaw-indian-research.htm
http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/louisiana-land-patents-choctaw-tribe.htm
http://www.accessgenealogy.com/black-genealogy/louisiana-african-american-genealogy.htm
http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/eastern-regions-of-bureau-of-indian-affairs.htm

i have indicated to accessgenealogy that there are california choctaw tribes and jena choctaw tribe in louisiana. so far it is not on that webpage.
they did add the MOWA tribe of AL.
http://www.jenachoctaw.org/

i am sorry that records are poor when looking for mixed race individuals. they are also poor when looking for natives. that is one of the reasons that i try to answer the inquiries on this messageboard because i hope to help people discover resources and teach people how to do genealogy.

suzanne hamlet shatto

LaKisha David LaKisha David

posted on November 10, 2013

This is my 2nd great grandmother Lina:

Name: Lina
Age: 24
Birth Year: abt 1856
Birthplace: Louisiana
Home in 1880: Pineville, Rapides, Louisiana
Race: Indian (Native American)
Gender: Female
Relation to Head of House: Self (Head)
Marital Status: Widowed
Father’s Birthplace: Louisiana
Mother’s Birthplace: Louisiana
Neighbors: View others on page
Cannot read/write:

Blind:

Deaf and Dumb:

Otherwise disabled:

Idiotic or insane:

View Image
Household Members:
Name Age
Lina 24
Stephen 9
Bob 7
James 5

If you view the actual record itself, the head of household listed in the census is her husband, James Voorhies. This census entry was transcribed/recorded that she was widowed in error. It lists her other children with James.

In any event, I’m trying to move past the several census records that I have to learning more about Lena’s background. …but, I’ll go follow some of the other advice you mentioned earlier.

Thanks.

suzanne hamlet shatto suzanne hamlet shatto

posted on November 10, 2013

you should correct this census record to give lina a surname, as well as the children. that way others can find your family.

1880 United States Federal Census about James Voorhees
Name: James Voorhees
Age: 40
Birth Year: abt 1840
Birthplace: Louisiana
Home in 1880: Pineville, Rapides, Louisiana
Race: Black
Gender: Male
Relation to Head of House: Self (Head)
Marital Status: Widower
Father’s Birthplace: Louisiana
Mother’s Birthplace: Louisiana
Neighbors: View others on page
Occupation: Farmer
Cannot read/write:

Blind:

Deaf and Dumb:

Otherwise disabled:

Idiotic or insane:

View Image
Household Members:
Name Age
James Voorhees 40
Stephen Voorhees 12
Cad Voorhees 10

1880 United States Federal Census about Lina
Name: Lina
Age: 24
Birth Year: abt 1856
Birthplace: Louisiana
Home in 1880: Pineville, Rapides, Louisiana
Race: Indian (Native American)
Gender: Female
Relation to Head of House: Self (Head)
Marital Status: Widowed
Father’s Birthplace: Louisiana
Mother’s Birthplace: Louisiana
Neighbors: View others on page
Cannot read/write:

Blind:

Deaf and Dumb:

Otherwise disabled:

Idiotic or insane:

View Image
Household Members:
Name Age
Lina 24
Stephen 9
Bob 7
James 5

i bypassed it because i didn’t see a james with a lina and didn’t know the names of children.

maybe james voorhees was previously married and this might be why his sons were designated black, while lina and her children may have been designated indian.

this would definitely be something to pursue with the jena choctaw tribe. one of the people who called the jena choctaw tribe about their relatives said that they recognized a name of a relative born around 1880 and she constructed a family tree and has to collect vital records to apply to the tribe. i don’t know what criteria for membership that the jena choctaw use, but it was a somewhat small community and apparently they usually know people who were members of the tribe.

if someone in your line applied for membership with the jena choctaw, there may already be documentation created that you can access. i don’t know. it is just another research suggestion.

census is a self-report survey. i remember when i was enumerating the census and people said they were “american” and “martian” and all kinds of things and i was just instructed to write it down.

do you have a death certificate for her? try state vital records and state archives for that.

1870 United States Federal Census about Caroline Toussain
Name: Caroline Toussain
Age in 1870: 25
Birth Year: abt 1845
Birthplace: Louisiana
Home in 1870: Subdivision 6, Avoyelles, Louisiana
Race: Black
Gender: Female
Post Office: Marksville
Value of real estate: View Image
Household Members:
Name Age
Jacques Toussain 38
Caroline Toussain 25
Ismael Toussain 3
Ferrier Toussain 1
Julie Jn brd 17
Source Citation: Year: 1870; Census Place: Subdivision 6, Avoyelles, Louisiana; Roll: M593_506; Page: 383A; Image: 141; Family History Library Film: 552005.

1860 United States Federal Census about Coralie Toussain
Name: Coralie Toussain
Age in 1860: 20
Birth Year: abt 1840
Birthplace: New Orleans
Home in 1860: New Orleans Ward 4, Orleans, Louisiana
Race: Mulatto
Gender: Female
Post Office: New Orleans
Value of real estate: View Image
Household Members:
Name Age
Helen Toussain 45
Charles Toussain 25
Coralie Toussain 20
Georgiana Toussain 18
August Ferret 35
Alphonse Biasca 23
Henry Languette 17
G Minonet 30
J Bruzenwann 33
Source Citation: Year: 1860; Census Place: New Orleans Ward 4, Orleans, Louisiana; Roll: M653_421; Page: 39; Image: 39; Family History Library Film: 803421.

i noticed on some of the census records that lina and james were listed as illiterate. that would have meant that they could not correct the census enumerator when the census enumerator wrote something down. maybe the surname came from carolina, in conversation.

i don’t know why the children were listed under one name and then another later. this sometimes happens, particularly with natives, as sometimes the names change as their favorite people change. they were not thinking that 100 years later people would be trying to find them in census records, looking for clues to their heritage. they were only thinking that their community knows who they were.

1860 United States Federal Census about Helen Toussain
Name: Helen Toussain
Age in 1860: 45
Birth Year: abt 1815
Birthplace: New Orleans
Home in 1860: New Orleans Ward 4, Orleans, Louisiana
Race: Black
Gender: Female
Post Office: New Orleans
Value of real estate: View Image

this is somewhat unusual, in that helen is a black woman who apparently is a head of household, not a slave or associated with another household. there may be other records for her.

people in this area usually didn’t move far from the area. so you have a chance to discover some records since you know where the family lived.

i am having trouble finding the family in the 1850 census. this could be because they might have been slaves at that time.

be generous on the surname in your search of the 1850 census schedule for toussaint. there are a number of possible records for a slaveowner by this surname.
you may have to look for estate papers, which may have given the names of the slaves and disposition.

many times, a slave may have been given their freedom upon the death of their master, out of consideration for the slave. many people treated slaves as family members. you should look at the 1850 slave schedule and compare it to the 1860 slave schedule and particularly look for those people who may have passed away between 1850 and 1860.

it is possible that james was in the same household, looking at the age of the children. he may have been named by the master’s household. and he may have wanted to change his name because he was taking charge of his life.

while you might not find a record of birth for lina, you might find other documentation through the jena choctaw. i don’t know. it appears she was mixed race, but i don’t know where the mixture came in.

you will need death certificates of both parents. maybe an obituary and cemetery record. childrens’ birth certificates or delayed birth certificates, ask for both documents at the same time from state vital records.
anyone who was alive 1/1/1937 applied for social security and had to submit a birth record in order to show proof of age. many times this was a delayed birth certificate. state vital records for this.
you can also get a copy of the social security application for a deceased relative with a ss-5 form.

suzanne hamlet shatto