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Any Talley's, Tally's or O'Talleys in the South or in Choctaw Nation?

Judy Mitchell Judy Mitchell

posted on October 6, 2010 and updated on January 25, 2011

Help…I’ve been unable to get much info on my Choctaw family. My Great, Great Grandmother was a Choctaw (maiden name unknown) and married to an Irishman (our Talley family name was once O’Talley). I’d been told I have some kin in the Appalachians. My grandmother was born in Arkansas and her parents were Jim (James) & Lottey Talley, and my Great, Great Grandmother was Theodosia (Theodosha) Talley, who was a Choctaw. I was given a tomahawk when younger that was lost later by a relative who was to repair it, then died. My mother recently died and I have no living relative to help get info. If anyone has any knowledge of my Choctaw/Talley family, please let me know! Thank you.

Paula Hutson Paula Hutson

posted on October 22, 2010

Hello Judy,
My name is Paula. I think I might be able to answer a few questions possibly. I grew up in a small town in North Texas – St Jo. Although it has been many years since I have lived there, I do remember a family of Talley’s (Not quite sure of the spelling.) I believe that there might be some Talley’s (Tally’s or etc) buried in the Mountain Creek Cemetery, which is located just outside of St Jo. St Jo is located in North Texas, Montague County, on Highway 82 (Between Gainesville and Nocona.) Although I’m not sure if this family has any relation, the information that one of them could provide could lead you in the right direction.
Best Wishes,
Paula H

P.S. Here is a link to St Jo on Google Maps
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&expIds=17259,24546,26425,26637,26719,26992,27022,27095,27178&sugexp=ldymls&xhr=t&q=st+jo+texas&cp=7&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=St+Jo,+TX&gl=us&ei=7hjBTImnN8T6lwfuypWLCg&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=title&resnum=1&sqi=2&ved=0CBMQ8gEwAA

Elisha Brewer Elisha Brewer

posted on October 22, 2010

Judy,

There are plenty of Choctaws that are Talley surnames in Catoosa County Georgia, Walker County Georgia and Dade County Georgia. Look also at Indian Census records in Madison County, Alabama. Try accessgeneology.com searching Native Americans. Many rolls are listed there. I found the most useful information through ancestry.com (usually free at your local library) search the card catalog. Enter the words Walker County, Georgia. There is a complete book titled, “The history of Walker County”. It’s a treasure I think you will enjoy.
Elisha Brewer

D. Ryan D. Ryan

posted on January 16, 2011

My Tally ancestors were in Washington and Tangipahoa parishes (counties) in Louisiana, just South of the Miss. state line.
Earliest known: John Tally and wife, Marguerite Sharp. Their daughter, Sarah/Sally, said to be of NA ancestry, but not sure thru which parent. Perhaps both. Sarah was b. 1789; d abt 1863. Married Jeremiah Thompson. She had a brother, John Tally Jr., who married Anna Magee.
Elisha, this Thompson family migrated from NC to La. with Brewer kin. The Brewers, George and Hannah Thompson Brewer, then moved to Ms. about 1820.

D. Ryan D. Ryan

posted on January 16, 2011

Looking for ancs., kin, of Daniel McKaim Alexander (1815 in NC, d in Ms.1868) and wife, Elizabeth Bridges/Bridger (b Ky; d Ms) & their daughter, Henrietta 1856-1893 in Ms.; married David M.Holt. They were in 1850, 1860 cen Pontotoc Co., Ms. The old Chickasaw Cession. Henrietta later in Warren Co., Ms.
Anyone know to which tribe these folks connect?

Daniel (aka McKaim Alexander) may have been son of Cyrus Alexander. Elizabeth was daughter of Thomas Bridges/Bridger.

suzanne hamlet shatto suzanne hamlet shatto

posted on January 16, 2011

here’s the marriage:
Mississippi Marriages, 1776-1935
about David M. Holt
Name: David M. Holt
Spouse: Henrietta Alexander
Marriage Date: 7 Aug 1873
County: Warren

This collection represents information originating on courthouse marriage licenses in various counties in Mississippi. Copies of these records may be obtained from the county clerk in the county in which the license was issued. This was usually the county that the bride was from. Microfilmed copies of these records may also be found at the Family History Library (FHL) in Salt Lake City or possibly at the state archives.
Warren County Chancery Clerk
1009 Cherry St
Vicksburg, MS 39180
(601) 636-4415

Vicksburg Genealogical Society, Inc.
P.O. Box 1161
Vicksburg, MS 39181-1161

1870 United States Federal Census
about Henryetta Alexander
Name: Henryetta Alexander
Birth Year: abt 1855
Age in 1870: 15
Birthplace: Mississippi
Home in 1870: Township 9, Pontotoc, Mississippi
Race: White
Gender: Female
Value of real estate: View image
Post Office: Toccopola
Household Members:
Name Age
Elizabeth Alexander 45
Martha Alexander 17
Henryetta Alexander 15
Virginia Alexander 10
Source Citation: Year: 1870; Census Place: Township 9, Pontotoc, Mississippi; Roll: M593_746; Page: 293A and B; Image: 220; Family History Library Film: 552245.
elizabeth owns a house worth $1,600, personal property worth $725, b. KY.
her children were b. MS.
this is quite a house in those days.
farmers live around her, in homes worth $200-400. i wonder if this was a plantation.
you can make a correction to the ancestry index so that others can find your family.

1860 United States Federal Census
about Henrietta D Alexander
Name: Henrietta D Alexander
Age in 1860: 6
Birth Year: abt 1854
Birthplace: Mississippi
Home in 1860: Pontotoc, Mississippi
Gender: Female
Post Office: Lafayette Springs
Value of real estate: View image
Household Members:
Name Age
D M Alexander 46
Elizabeth Alexander 36
Martha J Alexander 8
Henrietta D Alexander 6
Virginia A Alexander 1
John Sibby 61
Sarah Sibby 58
John Sibby 21
Missouri Sibby 22
Source Citation: Year: 1860; Census Place: , Pontotoc, Mississippi; Roll: M653_590; Page: 775; Image: 295; Family History Library Film: 803590.
he’s a farmer, owns a house $2000, personal effects $1725, b. NC.
it doesn’t say anything about the sibleys, as far as relation. they were b. NC.

1850 United States Federal Census
about Elizabeth Alexander
Name: Elizabeth Alexander
Age: 25
Estimated birth year: abt 1825
Birth Place: Kentucky
Gender: Female
Home in 1850 (City,County,State): Pontotoc, Mississippi
Family Number: 1840
Household Members:
Name Age
Mckaim Alexander 36
Elizabeth Alexander 25
Ausry Alexander 70
Harnilton Alexander 12
Source Citation: Year: 1850; Census Place: , Pontotoc, Mississippi; Roll: M432_380; Page: 193A; Image: 392.

genealogists use names, dates, locations, children and spouses to match records. if you have a common surname, you need to give more information rather than less. if you post about women, it is helpful to include the maiden name and the married name and designate which one is the maiden name.

start with what you know, gather documentation, then you can go backward in time. so get your birth certificate, your parents’ birth certificates and marriage license and then you can start on your grandparents. if someone passed away after 1/1/1937, they probably have a social security application on file. if you ask a government for a birth certificate, and they were born before 1929, they might have sumitted a delayed birth certificate. death certificates, cemetery information and obituaries are helpful. you can usually get a copy of an obituary, newspaper mentions such as birth of a child or marriage, through the interlibrary loan program – see your local public library for this. i usually start with the death and work toward the person’s birth. military records and pension records can be helpful. census records can tell you where they were at particular times. the census records up to 1930 are available, although the 1890 census was largely destroyed. the 1940 census will be public information in 2012.

first of all, heritage and tribal enrollment are two different things. many times natives didn’t apply for enrollment because 1) they didn’t qualify, 2) they were philosophically opposed to enrollment, 3) they didn’t have documentation, or 4) they were mississippi choctaw and their ancestor had accepted land or benefits in lieu of tribal enrollment.

the dawes roll was taken 1896-1906, so you should trace your ancestors down to that time period. mostly, they had to be living in oklahoma by that time and agree to live there permanently.

2 ways to search:
http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/finalroll.php
this will let you enter partial names to get card#. click on the card# in the card column and you can see other names in that family.
other resources on the left and at the bottom of this webpage. native census records and databases are especially useful.

http://www.okhistory.org/research/dawes/index.php
this will give you card# (family group) and enrollment #. they have some native marriage records too. other oklahoma records listed at left.
if the name is common, you may find too many possible records.

the tribe has an excellent information to help you. it is found under genealogy advocacy.
http://choctawnation.com/services/departments/community-services/

mississippi choctaw and choctaw tribe explained here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choctaw_Trail_of_Tears

http://www.choctaw.org/

jena choctaw tribe in louisiana:
http://www.jenachoctaw.org/

MOWA tribe
http://encyclopediaofalabama.org/face/Article.jsp?id=h-1368
http://www.uab.edu/uabmagazine/2009/july/losttribe
http://www.native-american-online.org/MOWA-Choctaw.htm
MOWA Band Of Choctaws Wilford Taylor 1080 Red Fox Road Mount Vernon, AL 36560 (251) 829-5500. E-Mail: chieftaylor@mowachoctaw.com

other choctaw tribes: http://www.aaanativearts.com/choctaw-indians/index.html

texas tribes
http://www.native-languages.org/texas.htm
http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/texas/index.htm
http://www.texasindians.com/
http://www.texasindians.com/
http://www.lsjunction.com/places/indians.htm

oklahoma tribes:
http://500nations.com/Oklahoma_Tribes.asp
http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/oklahoma/index.htm
http://www.cowboy.net/native/tribes.html

some links for the choctaw.
http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/tribes/choctaw/index.htm
i looked at the land records and those need a lot of work. i have no information about whether or when they will improve some of these categories.

types of records available for native americans:
pages 366-369 in particular although the entire native american chapter is helpful.
The Genealogist’s Companion and Sourcebook:
Guide to the Resources You Need for Unpuzzling Your Past
Emily Anne Croom
you can ask for these particular pages from your local public library. if they don’t have the book, you can get the pages through the interlibrary loan program.
native american records are discussed in pages 352-386.

Tracing ancestors among the Five Civilized Tribes: Southeastern Indians …
By Rachal Mills Lennon
this book could be accessed through the interlibary loan program also.

always find the state archives. some records are online, some records are not. but many times you can find a record not found in other places. you want to see also about newspaper mentions for obituaries, births, marriages in particular.

check courts for probate, civil and criminal cases, marriage records.

if your ancestors lived on a reservation, they might not appear on a federal census because they were not taxed.
http://www.okgenweb.org/~okgarvin/kinard/1860index.htm
1860 census, indian territory.

this book is a good read about the dawes roll and how they implemented it.
The Dawes Commission and the allotment of the Five Civilized Tribes, 1893-1914
By Kent Carter

good advice about native research:
http://jenniferhsrn2.homestead.com/research2.html

if your relatives came from a different geographic location or belonged to a different tribe, try searching google for the state and tribes. you might find a contact for a state-recognized tribe or a federal recognized tribe.

i have collected many resources over the years. if you want to write to me, shamlet76@gmail.com and request the choctaw resource list, i will be glad to send it to you.

i am just a volunteer that wants to empower people to learn how to do genealogy.

suzanne hamlet shatto

suzanne hamlet shatto suzanne hamlet shatto

posted on January 16, 2011

you might be looking at mississippi choctaw. you will have to find an enrollment or an application with that tribe, or a land grant to one of the household members.

Mississippi Marriages, 1776-1935
about Daniel M. Alexander
Name: Daniel M. Alexander
Spouse: Elizabeth Ann Bridges
Marriage Date: 21 Feb 1850
County: Pontotoc

you should try to find a land record with that county and try to see if there was a choctaw scrip land grant.

search for those surnames on ancestry.com and see if any match your ancestors.
there’s a thomas d. bridges and a thomas j. bridges that got choctaw scrip land. but i have not matched the land description with any location. you should do that.

these two:
Mississippi Land Records
about Thomas J Bridgers
Name: Thomas J Bridgers
Land Office: PONTOTOC
Document Number: 14901
Total Acres: 320.72
Signature: Yes
Canceled Document: No
Issue Date: 28 Nov 1843
Mineral Rights Reserved: No
Metes and Bounds: No
Statutory Reference: 3 Stat. 566
Multiple Warantee Names: No
Act or Treaty: April 24, 1820
Multiple Patentee Names: No
Entry Classification: Sale-Cash Entries
Land Description:
1 E½ CHICKASAW No 13S 2W 2
Mississippi Land Records
about Thomas J Bridgers
Name: Thomas J Bridgers
Land Office: PONTOTOC
Document Number: 14954
Total Acres: 160.22
Signature: Yes
Canceled Document: No
Issue Date: 28 Nov 1843
Mineral Rights Reserved: No
Metes and Bounds: No
Statutory Reference: 3 Stat. 566
Multiple Warantee Names: No
Act or Treaty: April 24, 1820
Multiple Patentee Names: No
Entry Classification: Sale-Cash Entries
Land Description:
1 SW CHICKASAW No 11S 2W 21
Source Information:
United States, Bureau of Land Management. Mississippi Land Records [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: The Generations Network, Inc., 1997.
Original data: United States, Bureau of Land Management. Mississippi Pre-1908 Patents: Homesteads, Cash Entry, Choctaw Indian Scrip and Chickasaw Cession Lands. General Land Office Automated Records Project, 1997.

you can see the deed here:
http://www.glorecords.blm.gov/beta/
you want land patents
that one is on thomas joseph nicholson bridgers

be generous with your spelling of the surname because these were handwritten deeds and they were typed later. there could be transcription errors.

the authority would be the treaty of dancing rabbit.
Statutory Reference: 3 Stat. 566
Multiple Warantee Names: No
Act or Treaty: April 24, 1820

like that.

Judy Mitchell Judy Mitchell

posted on January 25, 2011 and updated on February 2, 2011

Deleted.

Clydene Clydene

posted on January 25, 2011 and updated on January 25, 2011

Judy:

I have a Talley Family married into my Williams In Franklin Co., TN. The Talley’s moved to Alabama. This is purely from memory as I am not where my records are. Sherrod Williams b. 1776 was married to a NA who died as his first son Hardin Williams was NA – probably Cherokee. One of Hardin Williams daughters married a Talley in Franklin Co., TN but as I mentioned moved to AL. Clydene

Rebelchick Rebelchick

posted on February 1, 2011 and updated on February 1, 2011

@ Judy Mitchell

Hi, I’m not sure if they’re related to you but there is a Deputy Sheriff named Mike Talley that works for the Harris County Sheriff’s Department in Houston, Texas. He is definitely southern. You could try to get a hold of him and see if he has any connection. I don’t think he’s retired but I don’t know for sure but at least you know there are Talley’s in Texas. ;)

Terry Terry

posted on June 1, 2011

Re: Thomas J Bridges, I looked at the deed and wonder how this land deed validates that Thomas J Bridges was Choctaw- it doesnt..To my eyes, Thomas J Bridges was a white guy who purchased Chickasaw land..

suzanne hamlet shatto suzanne hamlet shatto

posted on June 1, 2011

terry, you have to look at the underlying land papers. they are not online.

Terry Terry

posted on June 2, 2011

@Suzanne, what are underlying land papers, and where can I find them? thanks

suzanne hamlet shatto suzanne hamlet shatto

posted on June 2, 2011

NARA http://www.archives.gov which is national archives and records administration.

give them all the information for that land record: authority, land description, name of land owner, dates.

underlying land papers address the authority, terms of the sale or scrip, qualification for receiving land scrip.

the authority is the reason that the federal government deeded the land or when they released land to be bought. this particular land record was coded scrip, which indicates that there was a qualification that the owner was given land in lieu of tribal membership. see the treaty of rabbit creek and the mississippi choctaw.
on ancestry, these scrip transactions appear under two databases: mississippi land records and alabama land records.

you can also contact the bureau of land management for an explanation.

Terry Terry

posted on June 2, 2011

I’m gonna research these land deeds but on the surface it read “cash transaction”, and this is why i’m against Choctaw script as the sole means of proving Choctaw blood because it opens up the doors for whites who purchased Choctaw script to somehow claim that it was issued to them b/c they were Indian..

The white man stole the indian’s land, enslaved them, made them beggers in their own land, and now they’re trying to steal the indian’s indentity – shameful..

suzanne hamlet shatto suzanne hamlet shatto

posted on June 2, 2011

prove choctaw blood?
heritage and tribal enrollment are two different things.
if you choose to give advice to people on the messageboard, sometimes it is necessary to put your feelings aside and give information and resources.

choctaw scrip land shows a heritage connection but nothing more than that. it does not make them eligible for enrollment.

however, it is often a precious connection to those who have it. the war department records are woefully inadequate and difficult due to transliterated native names. i think people should be able to find out where they came from, whether europe, north american, or anywhere else.

i have answered these inquiries for several years and i am not native. i do this as a volunteer to help people find their relatives, teach people about genealogy, give people resources that i have discovered over the years.

this is a public forum hosted by the choctaw tribe.

Terry Terry

posted on June 2, 2011 and updated on June 2, 2011

I know this is a public forum hosted by the Choctaw tribe and that’s why it’s sooo important to post true and accurate information. I think you’re doing a great job regarding genealogy, but giving wrong information regarding Choctaw scrip…and the above case is a good example this – you posted:

there’s a thomas d. bridges and a thomas j. bridges that got choctaw scrip..

This is not accurate, Thomas j Briges was a white guy who purchased chicksaw land.. No where on the deed of sale does it say that Thomas Joseph Nicolson Bridges was a Choctaw Indian or that this is Choctaw Script, it’s simply a land sale deed, and that’s it…

I’m not here to bicker with you, we can agree to disagree on this..

Terry

suzanne hamlet shatto suzanne hamlet shatto

posted on June 2, 2011

i posted from the ancestry database that contains choctaw scrip land records. did you see the source. i copied it to the post. looking up the deed would not be sufficient as a determining factor for native affiliation. only the underlying documents would have information. it is incorrect to assume that it is not a choctaw scrip land document. certainly, it would be something that the family should look up, to see the details of the transaction. this is where the authority of the transaction should be investigated. i intend to provide the information to people but i don’t intend to look up the transaction myself.

there could have been a classification mistake, but it was the bureau of land management or NARA that classified these records. i don’t assume that they were not classified correctly or incorrectly.

choctaw scrip land was given in lieu of tribal enrollment under the treaty of rabbit creek.

Alice Courtney Alice Courtney

posted on June 3, 2011

Anyone wanting to know about Melungeons can look in rootsweb.com for Melungeon Origins. Alice

Terry Terry

posted on June 3, 2011

I’m curious is there a Melungeon community out there? In Louisiana, tri-racials have been asorbed into the Creole community ,and they have their own food, music, culture and language..