Choctaw Nation of Oklahoma

The Great Seal of the Choctaw Nation

Seigler Family Line

Melissa Van Horn Melissa Van Horn

posted on March 14, 2013

Hi everyone. I am looking for some help finding proof that my great grandmother Nannie Seigler was Native and not just living on the reservation. In 1900, she and the rest of the Seigler Family were on the Indian Census, living in Blue, Choctaw Nation. Aug. 21, 1907, she married Thomas Landreth on Choctaw Nation. Now Thomas’ brother Robert Z. Landreth lived on Choctaw Nation as well and was married to a woman named Hannah Immatubby. Hannah was Native and I have found her roll number on the Dawes. I guess I am just still curious because the family legend is that Thomas and two of his brothers married Native women. To this day I am always asked if I am part Native or Chinese. Despite my fair skin I have VERY thick hair, almond shaped eyes and high cheek bones. I am wondereing if the census and the marriage would be enough to claim my nationality, or if indeed I need that elusive number? I uploaded an image of me. Hope to hear back from someone.


suzanne hamlet shatto suzanne hamlet shatto

posted on March 14, 2013

tribal enrollment and tribal heritage are two different topics. i do not know what you mean by nationality, whether you are referring to heritage or nationality. i don’t know of any tribe that enrolls people based on facial characteristics.

i do not know what census you refer to. your post appears to be light on information. there is no roll # or family group that i can see.

i do not see any landreth records on the dawes roll taken 1896-1906 in oklahoma/indian territory.

who are your ancestors from the 1900 census? this is during the time that many tribes enrolled people. the choctaw tribe of oklahoma was enrolling 1896-1906 and applicants’ names are on the dawes roll.

then where were your ancestors living in 1910-1930?

i looked on ancestry family trees and find that thomas landreth was b. TX.

1878 1 Mar

5 source citations

1880 Age: 2
Precinct 5, Lamar, Texas, United States

1 source citation

Marriage to Nannie B Seigler
1907 21 Aug Age: 29
Choctaw Nation, Oklahoma, USA

1910 Age: 32
Justice Precinct 6, Red River, Texas

1 source citation

1920 Age: 42
Justice Precinct 6, Red River, Texas

1 source citation

1920 Age: 42
Justice Precinct 6, Red River, Texas

1 source citation

1930 30 Mar Age: 52

1930 Age: 52
Precinct 6, Red River, Texas

1884 Jul

5 source citations

now nannie seigler:
1900 Age: 16
Township 6, Choctaw Nation, Indian Territory

1 source citation

Marriage to Thomas Landreth
1907 21 Aug Age: 23
Choctaw Nation, Oklahoma, USA

1910 Age: 26
Justice Precinct 6, Red River, Texas

1 source citation

1920 Age: 36
Justice Precinct 6, Red River, Texas

1 source citation

1930 Age: 46
Precinct 6, Red River, Texas

Name: Wannie B Seigler
Age: 15
Birth Date: abt 1885
Birthplace: Texas
Home in 1900: Township 6, Choctaw Nation, Indian Territory
Race: White
Gender: Female
Relation to Head of House: Daughter
Father’s Name: Robert F Seigler
Mother’s name: Jemima Seigler
Occupation: View on Image
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Robert F Seigler 52
Jemima Seigler 38
Mamie E Seigler 18
Wannie B Seigler 15
Rosa E Seigler 14
Homer N Seigler 11
Crawford C Seigler 10
Mencola Seigler 6
Myrtle R Seigler 5
Alice Seigler 2/12
Source Citation: Year: 1900; Census Place: Township 6, Choctaw Nation, Indian Territory; Roll: 1853; Enumeration District: 0184; FHL microfilm: 1241853.

i do not see that nannie siegler’s family applied for enrollment.

1900 United States Federal Census about Robert F Seigler
Name: Robert F Seigler
Age: 52
Birth Date: abt 1848
Birthplace: Mississippi
Home in 1900: Township 6, Choctaw Nation, Indian Territory
Race: White
Gender: Male
Relation to Head of House: Head
Spouse’s Name: Jemima Seigler

so robert seigler was b. 1848 MS, well after the trail of tears in the late 1830s. so this family might be mississippi choctaw.

1880 United States Federal Census about R. F Seigler
Name: R. F Seigler
Age: 21
Birth Year: abt 1859
Birthplace: Mississippi
Home in 1880: Precinct 2, Collin, Texas
Race: White
Gender: Male
Relation to Head of House: Brother
Marital Status: Single
Father’s Birthplace: South Carolina
Mother’s name: M. R. Seigler
Mother’s Birthplace: South Carolina
Neighbors: View others on page
Occupation: Farm Laborer
Cannot read/write:


Deaf and dumb:

Otherwise disabled:

Idiotic or insane:

View image
Household Members:
Name Age
W. M Seigler 28
M. D. Seigler 21
M. R. Seigler 66
R. F Seigler 21
M. S Rollins 30
M. Rollins 6
Source Citation: Year: 1880; Census Place: Precinct 2, Collin, Texas; Roll: 1296; Family History Film: 1255296; Page: 95C; Enumeration District: 020.

1870 United States Federal Census about Robert Seigler
Name: Robert Seigler
Age in 1870: 9
Birth Year: abt 1861
Birthplace: Mississippi
Home in 1870: Precinct 2, Collin, Texas
Race: White
Gender: Male
Post Office: Farmersville
Value of real estate: View image
Household Members:
Name Age
Martha Seigler 53
Martha Seigler 21
William Seigler 18
David Seigler 14
Jane Seigler 12
Robert Seigler 9
Source Citation: Year: 1870; Census Place: Precinct 2, Collin, Texas; Roll: M593_1579; Page: 401A; Image: 198; Family History Library Film: 553078.

Name: Martha Seigler
Age in 1870: 53
Birth Year: abt 1817
Birthplace: South Carolina

it appears that the seigler family was living off-reservation for years, if they are native.

this is the sister of robert:

1850 United States Federal Census about Martha Seigler
Name: Martha Seigler
Age: 3
Birth Year: abt 1847
Birthplace: Mississippi
Home in 1850: Coahoma, Mississippi
Gender: Female

Source Citation: Year: 1850; Census Place: , Coahoma, Mississippi; Roll: M432_370; Page: 205B; Image: 415.

the fact that natives were on the federal census means that they were living off-reservation. if natives lived on-reservation, they are not taxed and not on the federal census.

so this family would probably have difficulty providing the evidence that they were native, if they tried to enroll in a tribe.

that does not mean they were not native, but they had made choices that make it difficult to come up with the evidence required to enroll because they were not living on the reservation early in the process.

genealogists use names, dates, locations, children and spouses to match records. if you have a common surname, you need to give more information rather than less. if you post about women, it is helpful to include the maiden name and the married name and designate which one is the maiden name.

start with what you know, gather documentation, then you can go backward in time. so get your birth certificate, your parents’ birth certificates and marriage license and then you can start on your grandparents. if someone passed away after 1/1/1937, they probably have a social security application on file. if you ask a government agency for a birth certificate, and they were born before 1929, they might have submitted a delayed birth certificate. death certificates, cemetery information and obituaries are helpful. you can usually get a copy of an obituary, newspaper mentions such as birth of a child or marriage, through the interlibrary loan program – see your local public library for this. i usually start with the death and work toward the person’s birth. military records and pension records can be helpful. census records can tell you where they were at particular times, names of family members. the census records up to 1940 are available, although the 1890 census was largely destroyed.

you will need to know who the family members were 1830-1930 or so, where they were located. a good way to do this is by census records.
the first time period to concentrate on is 1900-1930 because most tribes enrolled during this period.
federal census records can help you here. you can get access through your local public library – two databases: 1) heritage quest, 2)

the dawes roll shows the applicants to the five major tribes 1896-1906 in indian territory/oklahoma. if your family applied for this, there would be a census card, dawes application, other supporting documents and testimony. these are located at NARA
try the fort worth, TX office.

obituaries through the oklahoma choctaw tribe is through the history link for the tribe:

social security application for a deceased person:
form SS-5.

your public library probably has a subscription to heritage quest and is another useful database for native records and military records, but they are a subscription. however, many times, their month’s subscription price is less than the price of a dawes packet. you can google fold3 and your ancestor’s name to see if your relative’s dawes packet is available at fold3.
partial names are allowed.

bear in mind that many records are not online. always collect documents, as just the reference to a relative in an index informs you that a document is available.

death records:
death certificate: state vital records or if very old, state archives. ask for the person’s name at the time of death. you can look at death indices, such as the social security death index 1964-present for a date of death on or
obituary: see your local public library, interlibrary loan program. ask for the person’s name at the time of death. approximate date of death is helpful. if old, state historical society or state archives might have historical newspapers.
cemetery record: try or ask for the person’s name at the time of death. if you find a relative, you can click on the county or cemetery to see if others with the same surname are buried there.

marriage records:
state vital records office, county clerk or if old, state archives or state historical society.

birth records:
state vital records office, or if old, state archives or state historical society. if the birth was before 1940, ask for a birth certificate or a delayed birth certificate. many people had to get delayed birth certificates when social security came into effect because they had to show proof of age. this will be under the name used at the time of birth.

census records:
you will want to search for census records 1940 on down to the birth of your relative. the federal census was taken every 10 years, however the 1890 census was largely destroyed by fire. there are also some state census records and native census records and native rolls. and heritage quest are two databases that include many census records. many native census records kept by NARA ( are transcribed at accessgenealogy.
several helpful links for records in the choctaw territory

first of all, heritage and tribal enrollment are two different things. many times natives didn’t apply for enrollment because 1) they didn’t qualify, 2) they were philosophically opposed to enrollment, 3) they didn’t have documentation, or 4) they were mississippi choctaw and their ancestor had accepted land or benefits in lieu of tribal enrollment.

for those people who do not yet have a card, you should research the 1900-1940 census to know approximate dates of birth, birthplaces, family members. this will also tell you if someone is more likely to be on the freedman roll or as applicants to the dawes roll taken 1896-1906 in indian territory/oklahoma for the five major tribes.

applicants can be found here:
partial names are ok. look at the guide link for explanation of the codes.

when you find a possible name, then click on the card# in the card column to see the family group. if it is your family group, and they were likely enrolled, then you can search the oklahoma historical society’s dawes roll link to get the enrollment #’s for particular family members.

if your family was enrolled by council action early in the process or was enrolled by lawsuit, they might not appear on the oklahoma historical society website. you would have to check with the tribe on that.

even if your family was rejected by the dawes process, you may want the testimony, census card, application information for your genealogical purposes.

the federal census will also help you decide which state to contact for vital records.

the dawes roll was taken 1896-1906, so you should trace your ancestors down to that time period. mostly, they had to be living in oklahoma by that time and agree to live there permanently.

history of the dawes roll
wikipedia entries are sometimes opinionated; entered by volunteers.

helpful information about tribal enrollment

freedmen information:

2 ways to search:
this will let you enter partial names to get card#. click on the card# in the card column and you can see other names in that family.
other resources on the left and at the bottom of this webpage. native census records and databases are especially useful.
this will give you card# (family group) and enrollment #. they have some native marriage records too. other oklahoma records listed at left.
if your relative was enrolled by court action, their name might not be on this list.
if the name is common, you may find too many possible records.
you can order the dawes packet from the oklahoma historical society website.

if you find a relative listed on the dawes roll, fold3 may have filmed the record and could be available online.
other resources are NARA

the five civilized tribes book put out by the department of the interior has testimony.
and you can read it online

and these are the microfilms at fort worth TX archives.

there may be additional records about your relative:
contact NARA for these and other records listed on this webpage.

75.23.1 Records of the Dawes Commission
75.23.2 Records of the U.S. Indian Inspector for Indian Territory
75.23.3 General records of the Commissioner to the Five Civilized Tribes
(Record Group 75)
oklahoma newspaper and archives search. some of these resources may be available through interlibrary loan/public library.

the tribe has an excellent information to help you. it is found under genealogy advocacy.
some obituaries:

NARA federal records repository. the fort worth, TX office has archives for oklahoma and texas tribes. atlanta/morrow office has archives for the southeast tribes. many offices have microfilmed records for several tribes. note that this web address has changed recently from

freedmen info:
You can ONLY apply for Choctaw Nation Membership, AFTER you have obtained a CDIB card proving your Choctaw Blood lineage to a direct ancestor who actually enrolled, BY BLOOD. Freedmen DID NOT enroll By Blood. When US Congress closed the Final Dawes Commission Rolls, there were no provisions granting Freedmen any benefits after the Dawes Commission closed. The tribe Constitution states BY BLOOD. however, the documents (application, census card and testimony) may help you find out more about your heritage.

about blood quantum laws:
calculations about blood quantum:

mississippi choctaw and choctaw tribe explained here:

jena choctaw tribe in louisiana:

MOWA tribe
MOWA Band Of Choctaws Wilford Taylor 1080 Red Fox Road Mount Vernon, AL 36560 (251) 829-5500. E-Mail:

other choctaw tribes:

chickasaw historical society
Historic Preservation and Repatriation Office
Phone: (580) 272-5325
Fax: (580) 272-5327
2020 E. Arlington, Suite 4, Ada, OK 74820
send mail to: P.O. Box 1548, Ada, OK 74821

chickasaw tribe
Chickasaw Nation Headquarters
520 East Arlington, Ada, OK 74820
Phone (580) 436-2603
Mailing address: P.O. Box 1548, Ada, OK 74821

chickasaw genealogy archive center Tribal Library
Phone: (580) 310-6477
Fax: (580) 559-0773
1003 Chamber Loop, Ada, OK 74820
send mail to: P.O. Box 1548, Ada, OK 74821
oklahoma historical society
marriage records

other historical societies:
some oklahoma genealogical societies:

texas tribes

oklahoma tribes:

some links for the choctaw.
i looked at the land records and those need a lot of work. i have no information about whether or when they will improve some of these categories.

types of records available for native americans:
pages 366-369 in particular although the entire native american chapter is helpful.
The Genealogist’s Companion and Sourcebook:
Guide to the Resources You Need for Unpuzzling Your Past
Emily Anne Croom
you can ask for these particular pages from your local public library. if they don’t have the book, you can get the pages through the interlibrary loan program.
native american records are discussed in pages 352-386.

Tracing ancestors among the Five Civilized Tribes: Southeastern Indians …
By Rachal Mills Lennon
this book could be accessed through the interlibary loan program also.

always find the state archives. some records are online, some records are not. but many times you can find a record not found in other places. you want to see also about newspaper mentions for obituaries, births, marriages in particular.

check courts for probate, civil and criminal cases, marriage records.

if your ancestors lived on a reservation, they might not appear on a federal census because they were not taxed.
1860 census, indian territory.

this book is a good read about the dawes roll and how they implemented it.
The Dawes Commission and the allotment of the Five Civilized Tribes, 1893-1914
By Kent Carter
and you can read this book online. your relatives’ testimony might be in the book.
see the menu at left. you can download it.
you should look at the enrollment application, census card and testimony. this post will tell you how to do that. these documents will tell you more about your heritage, but it won’t help you if your goal is to be enrolled in the choctaw tribe of oklahoma. some people were classed as mississippi choctaw if the family had a native heritage but didn’t qualify for enrollment in the tribe.

there are 63 tribes in oklahoma but only the five major tribes are on the dawes roll. look at your family’s location around 1900-1930 time period (census will help you there) and see if there was a tribe located nearby. it is possible that your relatives were affiliated with another tribe.

if they were mississippi choctaw, there is probably a land grant in MS/AL to a head of household called choctaw scrip land. this was given in lieu of tribal enrollment 1830-1880 time period. has a database of the MS and AL choctaw scrip land records, called mississippi or alabama land records. there are other land records in those databases too,, so you have to look at the authority/source cited. NARA has those land record packages.

the mississippi choctaw was not removed from oklahoma. but they were largely rejected for tribal enrollment.

this website might help you in your search. some people are trying to transcribe applications.
i do not know what they are trying to transcribe, but this is the volunteer page

and this might be of interest to you:
Rights of Mississippi Choctaws in the Choctaw Nation
Index to the Final Rolls of the Citizens and Freedmen of the Five Civilized Tribes in Indian Territory
the dawes roll is composed of applications to the five major tribes in oklahoma.

good advice about native research:

if your relatives came from a different geographic location or belonged to a different tribe, try searching google for the state and tribes. you might find a contact for a state-recognized tribe or a federal recognized tribe.

this page can help you set up a targeted google search.

penny postcards. this is a website that features pictures that were on postcards. click on the state to see the postcards that they have.
if you have a penny postcard, you can click on submissions to add your penny postcard to the collection.

these searches will combine several possible search terms and give you the best matches.

i have collected many resources over the years. if you want to write to me, and request the choctaw resource list, i will be glad to send it to you.

i am just a volunteer that wants to empower people to learn how to do genealogy.

suzanne hamlet shatto

Melissa Van Horn Melissa Van Horn

posted on March 15, 2013


Thank you so much for all of the sites you provided me with. I already have all of the records you provided me with. I did have Nannie Seigler and family located on Choctaw Nation per the Federal Census in Indian Territory (1900). I also have the marriage records of Nannie Seigler marrying Tom Landreth in Choctaw Nation (1907). I know that Tom is not Native. Our family story is that Tom and two of the other brothers moved to Choctaw Nation and married Native women. I can prove that Tom’s brother Robert Landreth married Hannah Imatubby. Hannah and her sister, Lonnie, are listed on the Dawes Final Rolls as full blooded Chickasaw. Her father Calvin and mother Suzie are listed as well. The spelling is somewhat different. Below is the information for the family as it is seen on the rolls.

Calvin Imatobby Age 46 ENR#4687
Suzie Imatobby Age 44 ENR#4688
Hannah Imatobby Age 11 ENR#4689
Lonnie Imatobby Age 7 ENR#4690

I have been all through the Dawes Rolls and the only thing I can find is a Seminole listing, last name Sigler (no first name) roll #670.

I don’t think I was very clear in my purpose for coming to the forum. I didn’t think I could apply for tribal membership based on my facial features. I was just trying to give some background to the story, as to why I am still searching even though I can’t find Nannie on the Rolls. I guess I am asking if it is possible that she was Native and for one reason or another did not enroll.

I have a friend who is Mississippi Choctaw and she told me about some DNA testing that is now going on. She said that each tribe can now detect it’s own bloodline. I am not sure if this is the case. I am wondering if I have any other way to prove/disprove Nannie’s nationality other than the Rolls. YOu have given me a lot of information and I appreciate you responding so quickly. Thanks again.


suzanne hamlet shatto suzanne hamlet shatto

posted on March 15, 2013

i am not native. i try to help people find resources and learn how to do genealogy.

it is very doubtful that the seminole sigler was related. usually one-named people were parents, much older people.

many natives lived in oklahoma. so did many non-natives.

you have to look for census information 1900-1940 before you try to find native records. then you know the names of family members. it is just like you trying to find your family on the dawes roll without finding the family group. you copied the information from elsewhere but it is incomplete.

Name Age Sex Blood Card No. Tribe Roll No.
Calvin Imatobby 46 Male Full Card #1196 Chickasaw by Blood Roll #4687
Susie Imatobby 44 Female Full Card #1196 Chickasaw by Blood Roll #4688
Hannah Imatobby 11 Female Full Card #1196 Chickasaw by Blood Roll #4689
Lonnie Imatobby 7 Female Full Card #1196 Chickasaw by Blood Roll #4690

i cannot see the family group for some reason and i don’t know why. there should be at least one parent on the card with the rest of the family. you should look at the documents on indices mean that there are underlying records and very few conclusions can be drawn with just an index #.

in any case, the family that is on the dawes roll does not seem to have a relationship to your direct ancestor so i don’t know why you are pointing to an indirect relation. the reason that they were listed on the dawes roll is because their parents were on the dawes roll. they were listed before marriage to tom landreth.

yes, there were natives living in oklahoma that did not apply for enrollment, but the natives that lived there probably didn’t qualify for enrollment. they may have lacked proof/evidence of native heritage. natives had an oral tradition and the native languages only became written in the middle of the 1800’s. so natives didn’t have records.

DNA testing doesn’t delineate tribes but they usually give you relatives that are fairly removed, such as 3rd or 4th cousin, and you have to figure out how you are related. i have done DNA testing and it is not very definitive about things. it has taken me about 6 months to figure out some family groups. i don’t know if tribes are able to detect their own bloodline, but i don’t think it is likely. tribes are associated bands of natives. the choctaw were cherokee just 100-200 years before most white men arrived.

you can see the type of information that DNA gives at if you write me, i will give you my personal kit# and you will see the information is not very specific. i have figured out where some people are in my family tree, but only a few now have known common ancestors. i am saying this because i have a broad, definitive, specific family tree and this is a pretty tough project. i know that many people hope for better information than they get with a DNA test.

as far as the verb PROVE, the only way to PROVE lineage is to find an enrollment record. you will have to settle for affiliation, if you find something. there are native census records (see my first post), native databases, historical newspapers, a few sources. but none will rise to the level of PROOF. you might find a MS or AL land record called choctaw scrip, given in lieu of tribal enrollment.

suzanne hamlet shatto