Choctaw Nation of Oklahoma

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He always told others he was French

Patty Patty

posted on January 1, 2013 and updated on January 1, 2013

My grandfather died in 1994 at the wonderful age of 95. He was a wonderful man and a mystery to me. I heard so many different stories about him, but we lived in California and he here in Arkansas, so I really didn’t know much other than he was my Papa. I do know he had two names, and I would love to understand why. He seemed ashamed of his native heritage. I knew him as Ed Lewis, but he married under Edgar R Clayton. His real dad died when he was a baby, his mother remarried and moved off the reservation somewhere just over the Oklahoma, Arkansas line. My sister says she believes his mothers name was Lillie Lewis (remarried name?), So I have very little to go on. How do I find out who he really was. Not even sure if he was born a Clayton or a Lewis. Was being indian really such a hard thing for some back then? Any suggestions on how to unravel who he really was?

suzanne hamlet shatto suzanne hamlet shatto

posted on January 1, 2013

you start from the death and work backwards. take care to explain the change of name. it could be that his stepfather’s name was clayton and his mother was married to a previous husband or unmarried at the time of his birth.

get a copy of his obituary from your local public library, interlibrary loan program. maybe a cemetery record is online at findagrave.com or interment.net. you can get a copy of his death certificate from state vital records.

then get a copy of his marriage licence.

you might need a copy of his social security application, which would show what identification he used, who he said his parents were. he probably submitted a delayed birth certificate to show proof of age. you should get a copy of his birth certificate or delayed birth certificate.

when you get more information, you can check http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/finalroll.php
this will give you the family group, if they enrolled in one of the five major tribes of oklahoma.
there are 63 tribes in oklahoma, links in this post. and if they lived elsewhere 1900-1930, then you should look nearer where they lived.

genealogists use names, dates, locations, children and spouses to match records. if you have a common surname, you need to give more information rather than less. if you post about women, it is helpful to include the maiden name and the married name and designate which one is the maiden name.

start with what you know, gather documentation, then you can go backward in time. so get your birth certificate, your parents’ birth certificates and marriage license and then you can start on your grandparents. if someone passed away after 1/1/1937, they probably have a social security application on file. if you ask a government agency for a birth certificate, and they were born before 1929, they might have submitted a delayed birth certificate. death certificates, cemetery information and obituaries are helpful. you can usually get a copy of an obituary, newspaper mentions such as birth of a child or marriage, through the interlibrary loan program – see your local public library for this. i usually start with the death and work toward the person’s birth. military records and pension records can be helpful. census records can tell you where they were at particular times, names of family members. the census records up to 1940 are available, although the 1890 census was largely destroyed.

obituaries through the oklahoma choctaw tribe is through the history link for the tribe:
http://www.choctawnation.com/history/

social security application for a deceased person:
http://www.ssa.gov/foia/html/foia_guide.htm
form SS-5.

your public library probably has a subscription to heritage quest and ancestry.com. fold3.com is another useful database for native records and military records, but they are a subscription. however, many times their month’s subscription price is less than the price of a dawes packet, however check with accessgenealogy’s database to see if your relative’s dawes packet is exists or is available at fold3.
http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/dawes.php?s_last=green&s_first=mart&s_middle=&s_tribe=
partial names are allowed.

bear in mind that many records are not online. always collect documents, as just the reference to a relative in an index informs you that a document is available.

death records:
death certificate: state vital records or if very old, state archives. ask for the person’s name at the time of death. you can look at death indices, such as the social security death index 1964-present for a date of death on rootsweb.com or ancestry.com.
obituary: see your local public library, interlibrary loan program. ask for the person’s name at the time of death. approximate date of death is helpful. if old, state historical society or state archives might have historical newspapers.
cemetery record: try findagrave.com or interment.net. ask for the person’s name at the time of death. if you find a relative, you can click on the county or cemetery to see if others with the same surname are buried there.

marriage records:
state vital records office, county clerk or if old, state archives or state historical society.

birth records:
state vital records office, or if old, state archives or state historical society. if the birth was before 1940, ask for a birth certificate or a delayed birth certificate. many people had to get delayed birth certificates when social security came into effect because they had to show proof of age. this will be under the name used at the time of birth.

census records:
you will want to search for census records 1940 on down to the birth of your relative. the federal census was taken every 10 years, however the 1890 census was largely destroyed by fire. there are also some state census records and native census records and native rolls. ancestry.com and heritage quest are two databases that include many census records. many native census records kept by NARA (http://www.archives.gov) are transcribed at accessgenealogy.

http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/tribes/choctaw/index.htm
several helpful links for records in the choctaw territory

first of all, heritage and tribal enrollment are two different things. many times natives didn’t apply for enrollment because 1) they didn’t qualify, 2) they were philosophically opposed to enrollment, 3) they didn’t have documentation, or 4) they were mississippi choctaw and their ancestor had accepted land or benefits in lieu of tribal enrollment.

for those people who do not yet have a card, you should research the 1900-1940 census to know approximate dates of birth, birthplaces, family members. this will also tell you if someone is more likely to be on the freedman roll or as applicants to the dawes roll taken 1896-1906 in indian territory/oklahoma for the five major tribes.

applicants can be found here:
http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/finalroll.php
partial names are ok. look at the guide link for explanation of the codes.

when you find a possible name, then click on the card# in the card column to see the family group. if it is your family group, and they were likely enrolled, then you can search the oklahoma historical society’s dawes roll link to get the enrollment #’s for particular family members.
http://www.okhistory.org/research/dawes

if your family was enrolled by council action early in the process or was enrolled by lawsuit, they might not appear on the oklahoma historical society website. you would have to check with the tribe on that.

even if your family was rejected by the dawes process, you may want the testimony, census card, application information for your genealogical purposes.

the federal census will also help you decide which state to contact for vital records.

the dawes roll was taken 1896-1906, so you should trace your ancestors down to that time period. mostly, they had to be living in oklahoma by that time and agree to live there permanently.

history of the dawes roll
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dawes_Act
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dawes_Commission
wikipedia entries are sometimes opinionated; entered by volunteers.

helpful information about tribal enrollment
http://www.felihkatubbe.com/ChoctawNation/TribalMembership.html

freedmen information:
many freedmen links on this webpage: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~ewyatt/_borders/

2 ways to search:
http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/finalroll.php
this will let you enter partial names to get card#. click on the card# in the card column and you can see other names in that family.
other resources on the left and at the bottom of this webpage. native census records and databases are especially useful.

http://www.okhistory.org/research/dawes/index.php
this will give you card# (family group) and enrollment #. they have some native marriage records too. other oklahoma records listed at left.
if your relative was enrolled by court action, their name might not be on this list.
if the name is common, you may find too many possible records.
you can order the dawes packet from the oklahoma historical society website.

if you find a relative listed on the dawes roll, fold3 may have filmed the record and could be available online.
http://www.fold3.com/documents/46580455/dawes-packets/
other resources are NARA http://www.archives.gov

the five civilized tribes book put out by the department of the interior has testimony.
http://books.google.com/books/about/Five_civilized_tribes_in_Oklahoma.html?id=chATAAAAYAAJ
and you can read it online

and these are the microfilms at fort worth TX archives.
http://www.archives.gov/southwest/finding-aids/native-american-microfilm.html

there may be additional records about your relative:
contact NARA http://www.archives.gov for these and other records listed on this webpage.

75.23 RECORDS OF THE COMMISSIONER TO THE FIVE CIVILIZED TRIBES 1852-1919
75.23.1 Records of the Dawes Commission
75.23.2 Records of the U.S. Indian Inspector for Indian Territory
75.23.3 General records of the Commissioner to the Five Civilized Tribes
http://www.archives.gov/research/guide-fed-records/groups/075.html
(Record Group 75)
1793-1989

http://okhistory.cuadra.com/star/public.html
oklahoma newspaper and archives search. some of these resources may be available through interlibrary loan/public library.

the tribe has an excellent information to help you. it is found under genealogy advocacy.
http://choctawnation.com/services/departments/community-services/
some obituaries:
http://www.choctawnation.com/history/obituaries/

NARA http://www.archives.gov/ federal records repository. the fort worth, TX office has archives for oklahoma and texas tribes. atlanta/morrow office has archives for the southwest tribes. many offices have microfilmed records for several tribes. note that this web address has changed recently from nara.gov.

freedmen info:
You can ONLY apply for Choctaw Nation Membership, AFTER you have obtained a CDIB card proving your Choctaw Blood lineage to a direct ancestor who actually enrolled, BY BLOOD. Freedmen DID NOT enroll By Blood. When US Congress closed the Final Dawes Commission Rolls, there were no provisions granting Freedmen any benefits after the Dawes Commission closed. The tribe Constitution states BY BLOOD. however, the documents (application, census card and testimony) may help you find out more about your heritage.

about blood quantum laws:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_quantum_laws
calculations about blood quantum:
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~wishawa4/Menominee%20Indians/quantum.htm

mississippi choctaw and choctaw tribe explained here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choctaw_Trail_of_Tears
http://www.choctaw.org/

jena choctaw tribe in louisiana:
http://www.jenachoctaw.org/

MOWA tribe
http://encyclopediaofalabama.org/face/Article.jsp?id=h-1368
http://www.uab.edu/uabmagazine/2009/july/losttribe
http://www.native-american-online.org/MOWA-Choctaw.htm
MOWA Band Of Choctaws Wilford Taylor 1080 Red Fox Road Mount Vernon, AL 36560 (251) 829-5500. E-Mail: chieftaylor@mowachoctaw.com

other choctaw tribes:
http://www.aaanativearts.com/choctaw-indians/index.html

chickasaw historical society
Historic Preservation and Repatriation Office
Phone: (580) 272-5325
Fax: (580) 272-5327
2020 E. Arlington, Suite 4, Ada, OK 74820
send mail to: P.O. Box 1548, Ada, OK 74821

chickasaw tribe
Chickasaw Nation Headquarters
520 East Arlington, Ada, OK 74820
Phone (580) 436-2603
Mailing address: P.O. Box 1548, Ada, OK 74821
http://www.chickasaw.net/index.htm

chickasaw genealogy archive center Tribal Library
Phone: (580) 310-6477
Fax: (580) 559-0773
1003 Chamber Loop, Ada, OK 74820
send mail to: P.O. Box 1548, Ada, OK 74821

http://www.okhistory.org/
oklahoma historical society
marriage records
http://www.okhistory.org/research/library/marriage.html
http://www.okgenweb.org/~okgarvin/kinard/chocmarriageindex.htm

other historical societies:
http://www.daddezio.com/society/hill/SH-OK-NDX.html
some oklahoma genealogical societies:
http://www.censusfinder.com/oklahoma-genealogy-society.htm
http://www.geneasearch.com/societies/socokla.htm

texas tribes
http://www.native-languages.org/texas.htm
http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/texas/index.htm
http://www.texasindians.com/
http://www.lsjunction.com/places/indians.htm

oklahoma tribes:
http://500nations.com/Oklahoma_Tribes.asp
http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/oklahoma/index.htm
http://www.cowboy.net/native/tribes.html
http://yvwiiusdinvnohii.net/OKTribes.htm

some links for the choctaw.
http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/tribes/choctaw/index.htm
i looked at the land records and those need a lot of work. i have no information about whether or when they will improve some of these categories.

types of records available for native americans:
pages 366-369 in particular although the entire native american chapter is helpful.
The Genealogist’s Companion and Sourcebook:
Guide to the Resources You Need for Unpuzzling Your Past
Emily Anne Croom
you can ask for these particular pages from your local public library. if they don’t have the book, you can get the pages through the interlibrary loan program.
native american records are discussed in pages 352-386.

Tracing ancestors among the Five Civilized Tribes: Southeastern Indians …
By Rachal Mills Lennon
this book could be accessed through the interlibary loan program also.

always find the state archives. some records are online, some records are not. but many times you can find a record not found in other places. you want to see also about newspaper mentions for obituaries, births, marriages in particular.

check courts for probate, civil and criminal cases, marriage records.

if your ancestors lived on a reservation, they might not appear on a federal census because they were not taxed.
http://www.okgenweb.org/~okgarvin/kinard/1860index.htm
1860 census, indian territory.

this book is a good read about the dawes roll and how they implemented it.
The Dawes Commission and the allotment of the Five Civilized Tribes, 1893-1914
By Kent Carter
and you can read this book online. your relatives’ testimony might be in the book.
http://www.archive.org/details/fivecivilizedtr00statgoog
see the menu at left. you can download it.
you should look at the enrollment application, census card and testimony. this post will tell you how to do that. these documents will tell you more about your heritage, but it won’t help you if your goal is to be enrolled in the choctaw tribe of oklahoma. some people were classed as mississippi choctaw if the family had a native heritage but didn’t qualify for enrollment in the tribe.

there are 63 tribes in oklahoma but only the five major tribes are on the dawes roll. look at your family’s location around 1900-1930 time period (census will help you there) and see if there was a tribe located nearby. it is possible that your relatives were affiliated with another tribe.

if they were mississippi choctaw, there is probably a land grant in MS/AL to a head of household called choctaw scrip land. this was given in lieu of tribal enrollment 1830-1880 time period. ancestry.com has a database of the MS and AL choctaw scrip land records, called mississippi or alabama land records. there are other land records in those databases too,, so you have to look at the authority/source cited. NARA http://www.archives.gov has those land record packages.

the mississippi choctaw was not removed from oklahoma. but they were largely rejected for tribal enrollment.

this website might help you in your search. some people are trying to transcribe applications.
http://www.us-census.org/native/choctaw_dawes.html
i do not know what they are trying to transcribe, but this is the volunteer page
http://www.us-census.org/states/graphics/status.htm

and this might be of interest to you:
http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/choctaw/rights-of-choctaws.htm
Rights of Mississippi Choctaws in the Choctaw Nation

http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/finalrolls/
Index to the Final Rolls of the Citizens and Freedmen of the Five Civilized Tribes in Indian Territory
the dawes roll is composed of applications to the five major tribes in oklahoma.

good advice about native research:
http://jenniferhsrn2.homestead.com/research2.html

if your relatives came from a different geographic location or belonged to a different tribe, try searching google for the state and tribes. you might find a contact for a state-recognized tribe or a federal recognized tribe.

this page can help you set up a targeted google search.
http://www.searchforancestors.com/google/searcher.html

penny postcards. this is a website that features pictures that were on postcards. click on the state to see the postcards that they have.
http://www.usgwarchives.org/special/ppcs/ppcs.html
if you have a penny postcard, you can click on submissions to add your penny postcard to the collection.

these searches will combine several possible search terms and give you the best matches.

i have collected many resources over the years. if you want to write to me, shamlet76@gmail.com and request the choctaw resource list, i will be glad to send it to you.

i am just a volunteer that wants to empower people to learn how to do genealogy.

suzanne hamlet shatto

Patty Patty

posted on January 1, 2013

wow, I appreciate all your help. His mother remarried when he was a child. she later had 9 other children. Lewis would have been his step fathers name. I am curious to looks at the Mississippi aspect of this, as the 1920 census, list her and her children all from “mississippi”, which made no sense at the time because they were all born in Arkansas. Is it possible she was saying she and her 10 children were mississippi chowtaw? It gives me much to research. I am 53 years old and just now realizing that in the early 1900’s things were very different if you said you were Chowtaw. Thanks again, it will be educating for sure..

suzanne hamlet shatto suzanne hamlet shatto

posted on January 1, 2013

it is possible that they enrolled with a state-recognized tribe or a federally recognized tribe. it is possible they did not apply for enrollment. maybe they didn’t meet the membership rules.

YES, affiliation meant different things at different times. affiliation and eligibility for enrollment are often two different topics.

there is the MOWA tribe, the mississippi choctaw tribe, the jena choctaw tribe, and other tribes.

i don’t know what was intended. many from the southeastern reservations moved to OK/indian territory and many of those people were not eligible to enroll by the tribes rules.

you need to take more than one datapoint (1920 census) and it will give you a better picture. you should collect all census records 1900-1940, vital records for your ancestors, and then see what the records tell you.

you can also see if one of the family gave an interview about their lives, oklahoma pioneer papers.
http://digital.libraries.ou.edu/whc/pioneer/
the volumes are alphabetized by surname. check the about to see how to get copies. many of the interviews are online.

genealogy is a journey and you never really finish with it. we have to value little bits of information.

gl.

suzanne hamlet shatto

Patty Patty

posted on January 3, 2013

NR

HARTSHORNE

BB

I need to ask a quick question,
On the dawes rolls NR Not rolled or non resident

but what does Hartshorne and BB mean? Do you know?

suzanne hamlet shatto suzanne hamlet shatto

posted on January 3, 2013

there is no context of your post. you need to look at the guide for the codes.
http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/enroll/guide.htm

bb=by blood
and i am guessing that hartshorne is the residence location.
NR might mean not enrolled, but it might not. it would depend on the context.
if you find a candidate, go to the oklahoma historical society and put in the name. if there was an enrollment #, it would show. if the person was not enrolled, there would be no entry.
the accessgenealogy website shows applicants, and you can look at the members of the family using the card#. the oklahoma historical society shows members of the tribe.

since i am not familiar with the people in your family, you should put the information in order so that i can check records. it is difficult for me to look at things to be able to tell you the context if the information is partial or in a series of posts.

i don’t know if his name is edgar clayton on the dawes roll or on his social security application. i don’t know if his name is ed lewis on the dawes roll or his social security application.

is this is family?
Dawes Card Information

tribe last first middle age sex blood card roll misc type
Choctaw Lewis Richard H 0 M MCR5568 P
Choctaw Lewis Homa Ray 1 M 1/16 MCR5568 LYONS OK MCR
Choctaw Lewis Essie 3 F 1/16 MCR5568 LYONS OK MCR
Choctaw Lewis Constance L 4 F 1/16 MCR5568 LYONS OK MCR
Choctaw Lewis Edgar Flynn 5 M 1/16 MCR5568 LYONS OK MCR
Choctaw Lewis Mary Myrtle 6 F 1/16 MCR5568 LYONS OK MCR
Choctaw Lewis Lula 30 F 1/8 MCR5568 LYONS OK MCR
Choctaw Zeigler Louisa 0 F MCR5568 P
Choctaw Zeigler P T 0 M MCR5568 P
p=parent
MCR=mississippi choctaw refused. some mississippi choctaw were enrolled later, but most MCR were not enrolled.

parents were listed as 0 age, since they were not on the family record.

if your family was listed as MCR, the enrollment application, testimony and census card might be important to you as heritage information would be in it.

i wouldn’t pay a lot of attention to the NR until you find your family.

do you have a copy of his death certificate? that would be at state vital records.

or his obituary? you can get a copy through your local public library/interlibrary loan program.

if you get stuck, he would have known the name of his parents and would have put that down on his social security application. since he had to show proof of age when he applied for social security 1/1/1937, he would have submitted a birth certificate or delayed birth certificate. if you ask state vital records for that document, ask for both.

really, you should first look at the census records 1900-1940. then you know the family members, ages, birthplaces. then look for a native record that matches the family.

the census can usually be accessible through your local public library. they probably have a database called heritage quest that you can access from home. the library probably has a subscription to ancestry.com also.

the mississippi choctaw were considered a separate tribe, links in my first post. when the treaty of rabbit creek was signed, the federal government ordered the choctaw to leave the reservation and go to indian territory/oklahoma in the late 1830’s. many choctaw said they were too poor. there was a provision in the treaty of rabbit creek that they could choose to stay and accept tribal termination. those that did not migrate on the trail of tears were called mississippi choctaw. some land grants were given in MS and AL in lieu of tribal enrollment. many of those are called choctaw scrip and on a database on ancestry.com called MS land records or AL land records. those land records are at NARA http://www.archives.gov, if you want to look at those. the land grants were given to the head of household 1830-1880 or so.

if you find your family on the dawes roll, then you can get a copy of the dawes packet from oklahoma historical society, NARA fort worth, TX office or fold3.com online. fold3 is an online subscription website but the cost of one month’s subscription is less than the price of the dawes packet from the other two sources.

this census record appears to match the dawes family i posted:

1900 United States Federal Census about Edgar Lewis
Name: Edgar Lewis
Age: 3
Birth Date: May 1897
Birthplace: Oklahoma
Home in 1900: Cimarron, Woods, Oklahoma
[Woods]
Race: Black
[White]
Gender: Male
Relation to Head of House: Son
Marital Status: Single
Father’s Name: Richard H Lewis
Father’s Birthplace: Arkansas
Mother’s Name: Lula Lewis
Mother’s Birthplace: Alabama
Occupation: View on Image
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Richard H Lewis 27
Lula Lewis 28
Myrtle Lewis 4
Edgar Lewis 3
Constance Lewis 2
Baby Lewis 3/12
Source Citation: Year: 1900; Census Place: Cimarron, Woods, Oklahoma; Roll: 1343; Page: 2A; Enumeration District: 0217; FHL microfilm: 1241343.

the family is on the regular population schedule and not on the indian population schedule.

i think you need more than one datapoint/census record to do this because of the name change and uncertainty of information. both surnames are common.

i start from the death and work backwards. what name was given for the social security death index?

suzanne hamlet shatto

Patty Patty

posted on January 3, 2013

Sorry I can’t explain more but need to leave for work. I was referring to Dawes Chowtaw 3162. Lewis was her married name. Working backwards I have 3 possible paths, one suggesting her maiden name was Johnson.

Meanwhile I will be late if I don’t leave so thank you for your help.. I have these all in my shoebox to review and track further. But the file above is a possible.

suzanne hamlet shatto suzanne hamlet shatto

posted on January 3, 2013

the dawes roll lists the applicants to the five major tribes in indian territory/oklahoma for the time period 1896-1906.

you need documents in order to prove your relationship to an original enrollee. so the collection of documents is important.

the dawes roll was closed after 1906, so if someone was born after 1906, they would not be on the dawes roll.

i would suggest that you figure out the names that you expect to be on the dawes roll. the census and birth certificate/delayed birth certificate would help you there.

the names you are pursuing are common. so i think you are bound to find matches. you can narrow this down by getting documents, knowing the family members that you expect.

Last Name First Name Age Sex Blood Census Card No. Tribe & Enrollment
Johnson Belvina 13 Female 3-4 CC# 3162 Page 55 Enr# 9147 Choctaws – by Blood
Johnson Lillie 25 Female 3-4 CC# 3162 Page 55 Enr# 9146 Choctaws – by Blood
Johnson Daniel E. 32 Male 3-4 CC# 3162 Page 55 Enr# 9145 Choctaws – by Blood
Micco Aktiyarchee 88 Male Full CC# 3162 Page 555 Enr# 8890 Creeks – by Blood

from the oklahoma historical society dawes roll.
http://www.okhistory.org/research/dawes

the micco record appears to be a creek tribe record and likely has nothing to do with your family. i just put in the card# and did not specify tribe.

if the parents were enrolled, then those are the original enrollees. so it is less important to have the enrollment # of the children.

perhaps the children didn’t get a land allotment because the parents received land allotments.
http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/enroll/dawes.htm

Sarah Turner Sarah Turner

posted on January 4, 2013

Patty, Hartshorne is a town northeast of McAlester, Oklahoma. I’m not sure if that means anything to you or not, but if they moved to a place by the Oklahoma/Arkansas line then that may be a link to it somehow. Hartshorne is not very far from Wilburton which is where the Choctaw school “Jones Academy” is located and farther north is Poteau, which is also filled with lots of Choctaw links. Hope that helps.

Patty Patty

posted on January 4, 2013 and updated on January 4, 2013

Yes, I see a bit of local travel in my future.
This info will help, because here is what I suspect but will need grandpa’s and his mothers SS or delayed Birth Certificates to verify.

I find no connection to the name Edgar Clayton. I do know papa left home at age 13 and was a very angry young man for many years.

So instead I focused on his mother.
His mother is buried in Ola, She is Lillian Lewis, First married as Lillie Irvin, Her maiden name was Johnson. Birthdate appears to be 8/1/1885, she married John D Irvin(Irwin) 5/1/1898 (age 13, wow) they show her as 20, on the marriage certifcate (listing her maiden name as johnson), He died in either a mining or logging accident i was told. But the 1900 census shows her as “22” and they had a son ernest irvin age 1.

In 8/20/05 she marries Oscar Lewis (her previous name is shown as Irvin) and her age is shown as 21 (which makes more sense 1905-85) The
1910 census show 3 children, the oldest named Lee,(3) irene(2) and gladys (1) No mention of my papa,

1920 in leflore 6 kids “Edcar (16)?” Irene (13) Gladys (11) Noble (9) Leslie (7) Ada (4) and Ermie(1)

1930 there is 6 Noble(17), Ada (15) Erma (8) imogen(7) alan (6) and Leslie (16)

1940 only Olin 17 and Imogene 18 remain

Oscar died in 1943, His mom in 1963.

Now here why I am still confused. I can find nothing on my Papa, mom says he left home young, traveled alot, worked the railroads, logging camps and didn’t have much to do with his family. Why he married grandma under “edgar clayton” I can not figure out. I am trying to locate his delayed Birth Certificate in hopes that or SS will help answer those questions. Looks like I may have to get his mothers SS info as well.

But yes, its possible she is part of 3162. My mom say she always said she was 3/4 indian. Something that always sounded odd to all of us. The name fits, her age (somewhere about 1884 or 1885), the locations (somewhere just over the arkansas line, Poteau, Lefore area,) but there are many Lewis surnames, and its going to take me sometime to locate some of this offline.

Meanwhile, thank you so much for your help. I am still very confused over the “rolls” and “cards” and its still a mystery as to “what happened to Papa” during those years. Unfortunately I may never know the entire story. He always said he was french, and while he lived till he was 95, I was just his little city girl that came to visit one week every year. I missed so much of who he and my grandmother really were. They were poor, sharecropper for many years, it wasn’t until WW2 he got hurt on the railroad, ended up with a metal plate in his head and arm and a settlement that gave him his first small farm of his own. (this may be when he got his SS info and delayed birth certificate).

I just decided I am very proud of my heritage, all my family and want to pass this info on to my son.

So now, how do I look at the info on the 3162. Would Lewis or Liza possibly be her parents? What does this packet tell me really.

Just as I get older and now that I live in Fort Smith, I figure its time to know part of who I am.

So tell me, this may in fact be my great grandmother. The packet has several Johnsons show… I will be looking at it closer.

Johnson Lillie 25 Female 3-4 CC# 3162 Page 55 Enr# 9146 Choctaws – by Blood

what is this telling me, What do I need next? I figure his and her birth certificates will be a must. But what else do you suggest. So I can finally say, Yes!!! thats part of who I am….. the rest of my roots on my family tree are deeply twined, this was the only branches missing until now, I really feel I am on the right path. Thank you so much for all the encouragement and help.

My grandfather was know as simply Edd Lewis, born I really believe in 1899, in oklahoma/arkansas. They lived most of their lives in Yell county Ar or the surrounding areas. His SS online info says he was born in 1902. My mother who is 82 btw, and she thinks she may have some papers tucked away to help me. His delayed BC for one. He said he was 95 when he died in 1994. So I suspect 1899 was his true birthdate. I have much to research but hey it keeps me out of the casinos ;).

Thank you again so much

suzanne hamlet shatto suzanne hamlet shatto

posted on January 4, 2013

go to your local public library and see if there were obituaries on your family through the interlibrary loan program. this will be free, just requiring a little effort. the obituary may tell you details that will help you acquire records.

everyone who was alive had to enroll in social security 1/1/1937 and they had to show proof of age. since many did not have a birth certificate, they submitted delayed birth certificates to show proof of age. so when you ask for birth certificates from state vital records office, also ask for a delayed birth certificate. these documents are usually filed chronologically, so this is why you have to ask for both.

card# is the family group.
enrollment# is the personal enrollment # assigned by the tribe when they enroll.

a copy of the social security application can guide you if you get stuck. it may have aliases on it. it would show spouses, children, parents, birthdate, birthplace. this is available for about $27 from social security if you file a SS-5 on a deceased person.
http://www.ssa.gov/foia/html/foia_guide.htm

i would recommend a copy of the social security application in the case of the person who changed their name. it is an extra step but it can help you narrow down your search for documents.

http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/enroll/info.htm
http://www.okhistory.org/research/dawes
dawes packet information
http://wrytestuff.com/swa335131.htm
http://mike-boucher.com/wordpress/?page_id=1044
and you can click on the various peoples’ names and see what was in the dawes packet.
there will be a census card, the enrollment application, supporting documents and maybe testimony.
i think the cheapest way to go might be fold3.com because they offer a month’s subscription for a fee less than the price of the dawes packet at the oklahoma historical society and NARA. many times there will be testimony included.

i think you should get vital records and do the census search as far as you can go. the 1900 census will be crucial because that will tell you the family members that should be on the dawes roll, so it will help you narrow down the family group.

i think you need birth and death certificates down to the original enrollee of the tribe, if you meet the requirements for enrollment in the tribe. see the FAQs.
http://www.choctawnation.com/services/departments/enrollment-cdib-and-tribal-membership/

gl.

Patty Patty

posted on January 4, 2013

Thank you so much again. I best get some rest, but I find this very interesting and hard to walk away from. I will probably have many more questions for you later, once I have my work week over and can research some more. Mom lives in Ola, I may be able to drive out there this weekend and spend a wonderful day asking about her family memories and looking at what she tucked back in her hope chest. She returned to Arkansas in 1984 to care for her parents. So she or my older sister may have papa’s SS and BC already in hand. I know she will enjoy a day out and lunch anyhow. I do so appreciate your help.

Patty

Patty Patty

posted on January 4, 2013 and updated on January 4, 2013

Thank you so much again. yes I best get rest, I am repeating myself. You are incredible. I truly appreciate all the information. I plan to make good use of it after work today.