Choctaw Nation of Oklahoma

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Looking for the Heritage for Toney Rowe Johnson on the tribal tree?

mary Sanders mary Sanders

posted on September 15, 2012 and updated on September 15, 2012

Greetings My name is Pastor Mary A. Sanders,
I was born an inidan either with the Choctaw, or Cherokee, or Creek tribe. My Dad was born 1/2 Choctaw my mother was born 1/2 of Choctaw and Cherokee tribe. My Grandmother Maggie Myrtle Brown I believe was born a Choctaw, as she is a full blood. Please I need some help here as I am urgent to find out my inheritance.
Please will you leave some information on this should you know these individuals:
1. Maggie Myrtle Brown/Goodman
2. Toney Rowe Johnson
3. Cath Elijah Goodman
4. Willie A. Lucinda KIng Goodman
5. Renna A. Little/ Johnson
6. George A. Goodman
7. Jefferson Brown
8. Mary Ann Ammons
9. Lewis Ammons
10.Mary Griffith

Please respond to me here at this page. Thanks

mary Sanders mary Sanders

posted on September 15, 2012

Please we need your help. I am in the middle of trying to save my grandchildren from being taken away from their tribal inheritance. Please this battle needs your assistance. Contact me here at this site. URGENT Help is needed.

suzanne hamlet shatto suzanne hamlet shatto

posted on September 15, 2012

there are no dates or locations in this post. no clear indication of maiden name or married name. no spouse names. no relationship between the names.

Toney Rowe Johnson was born 12 Dec 1909 in Mugnum, OK, and died 09 Sep 1997 in Mugnum, OK. He married Dorthy Faye Goodman on 27 Aug 1945 in CA, daughter of Cath Elijah Goodman and Maggie Myrtle Brown.

Includes NotesNotes for Toney Rowe Johnson:

Divorce 1969

More About Toney Rowe Johnson and Dorthy Faye Goodman:
Marriage: 27 Aug 1945, CA.

Children of Toney Rowe Johnson and Dorthy Faye Goodman are:

+Anthony Wayne Johnson, b. 18 May 1946, CA. +Mary Ann Johnson, b. 18 Apr 1948, Delano, Ca. +Marvin Ray Johnson, b. 24 Apr 1948, CA. Fred Lee Johnson, b. 28 Jul 1950, Lamesa, TX, d. 01 May 2004, Banks, OR. +Toney Rowe Johnson Jr., b. 26 Dec 1952, Lamesa, TX. +Joyce Faye Johnson, b. 10 Feb 1954, Lamesa, TX.

http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/h/i/s/Lisa—M-Hise/WEBSITE-0001/UHP-0073.html

Dorthy Faye Goodman (daughter of Cath Elijah Goodman and Maggie Myrtle Brown) was born 12 Sep 1921 in Pittsburg, Texas. She married (1) Charlie Monroe Bradford on 23 Oct 1937 in Colorado City, TX, son of Issac Bradford and Beulah Tabors. She married (2) Toney Rowe Johnson on 27 Aug 1945 in CA.

More About Dorthy Faye Goodman and Charlie Monroe Bradford:
Marriage: 23 Oct 1937, Colorado City, TX.

More About Dorthy Faye Goodman and Toney Rowe Johnson:
Marriage: 27 Aug 1945, CA.

Children of Dorthy Faye Goodman and Charlie Monroe Bradford are:

+Imagene Bradford, b. 26 Jul 1938, Big Springs, TX. +Donald Bradford, b. 21 Nov 1939, Durham, OK. +William Boyd Bradford, b. 10 Jan 1942, Cheyenne, OK. +Charles George Bradford, b. 16 Aug 1943, Cheyenne, OK, d. 14 Nov 1998, Altus, (Jackson County) OK.

http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/h/i/s/Lisa—M-Hise/WEBSITE-0001/UHP-0055.html

Cath Elijah Goodman (son of Bluford Calvin Goodman and Willie Ann Lucinda King) was born 09 Feb 1898 in Hopkins County, and died 25 Dec 1952 in Hopkins County. He married Maggie Myrtle Brown on 05 Dec 1921, daughter of Jefferson Brown and Mary Griffith.

More About Cath Elijah Goodman and Maggie Myrtle Brown:
Marriage: 05 Dec 1921

Children of Cath Elijah Goodman and Maggie Myrtle Brown are:

+Dorthy Faye Goodman, b. 12 Sep 1921, Pittsburg, Texas. Roman Lee Goodman, b. 17 Dec 1924, d. 1924, Denver, CO. Francis Letha Goodman. Cecil G. Goodman. J.B. Goodman, b. 10 Mar 1928, d. 27 Dec 1952, Lamesa, TX. Edna Ruth Goodman, b. 10 Oct 1936. Bobby Ray Goodman. Loretta May Goodman, b. 06 Dec 1942.

someone put a family tree on genealogy.com.

jefferson brown did not apply to the five major tribes 1896-1906.

i also don’t see a record for maggie myrtle brown that fits the age or parents.

tribal heritage and tribal enrollment are two different topics. some people were philosophically opposed to enrollment and some people did not qualify for enrollment.

i don’t know about mary ann ammos because ammoss might be amos. there are several records for amos surname but i don’t know whether she was alive at the time of the dawes roll and which family members might have been associated with her.

genealogists use names, dates, locations, children and spouses to match records. if you have a common surname, you need to give more information rather than less. if you post about women, it is helpful to include the maiden name and the married name and designate which one is the maiden name.

start with what you know, gather documentation, then you can go backward in time. so get your birth certificate, your parents’ birth certificates and marriage license and then you can start on your grandparents. if someone passed away after 1/1/1937, they probably have a social security application on file. if you ask a government agency for a birth certificate, and they were born before 1929, they might have submitted a delayed birth certificate. death certificates, cemetery information and obituaries are helpful. you can usually get a copy of an obituary, newspaper mentions such as birth of a child or marriage, through the interlibrary loan program – see your local public library for this. i usually start with the death and work toward the person’s birth. military records and pension records can be helpful. census records can tell you where they were at particular times, names of family members. the census records up to 1940 are available, although the 1890 census was largely destroyed.

obituaries through the oklahoma choctaw tribe is through the history link for the tribe:
http://www.choctawnation.com/history/

social security application for a deceased person:
http://www.ssa.gov/foia/html/foia_guide.htm
form SS-5.

your public library probably has a subscription to heritage quest and ancestry.com. fold3.com is another useful database for native records and military records, but they are a subscription. however, many times their month’s subscription price is less than the price of a dawes packet, however check with accessgenealogy’s database to see if your relative’s dawes packet is exists or is available at fold3.
http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/dawes.php?s_last=green&s_first=mart&s_middle=&s_tribe=
partial names are allowed.

bear in mind that many records are not online. always collect documents, as just the reference to a relative in an index informs you that a document is available.

death records:
death certificate: state vital records or if very old, state archives. ask for the person’s name at the time of death. you can look at death indices, such as the social security death index 1964-present for a date of death on rootsweb.com or ancestry.com.
obituary: see your local public library, interlibrary loan program. ask for the person’s name at the time of death. approximate date of death is helpful. if old, state historical society or state archives might have historical newspapers.
cemetery record: try findagrave.com or interment.net. ask for the person’s name at the time of death. if you find a relative, you can click on the county or cemetery to see if others with the same surname are buried there.

marriage records:
state vital records office, county clerk or if old, state archives or state historical society.

birth records:
state vital records office, or if old, state archives or state historical society. if the birth was before 1940, ask for a birth certificate or a delayed birth certificate. many people had to get delayed birth certificates when social security came into effect because they had to show proof of age. this will be under the name used at the time of birth.

census records:
you will want to search for census records 1940 on down to the birth of your relative. the federal census was taken every 10 years, however the 1890 census was largely destroyed by fire. there are also some state census records and native census records and native rolls. ancestry.com and heritage quest are two databases that include many census records. many native census records kept by NARA (http://www.archives.gov) are transcribed at accessgenealogy.

first of all, heritage and tribal enrollment are two different things. many times natives didn’t apply for enrollment because 1) they didn’t qualify, 2) they were philosophically opposed to enrollment, 3) they didn’t have documentation, or 4) they were mississippi choctaw and their ancestor had accepted land or benefits in lieu of tribal enrollment.

the dawes roll was taken 1896-1906, so you should trace your ancestors down to that time period. mostly, they had to be living in oklahoma by that time and agree to live there permanently.

history of the dawes roll
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dawes_Act
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dawes_Commission
wikipedia entries are sometimes opinionated; entered by volunteers.

helpful information about tribal enrollment
http://www.felihkatubbe.com/ChoctawNation/TribalMembership.html

2 ways to search:
http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/finalroll.php
this will let you enter partial names to get card#. click on the card# in the card column and you can see other names in that family.
other resources on the left and at the bottom of this webpage. native census records and databases are especially useful.

http://www.okhistory.org/research/dawes/index.php
this will give you card# (family group) and enrollment #. they have some native marriage records too. other oklahoma records listed at left.
if your relative was enrolled by court action, their name might not be on this list.
if the name is common, you may find too many possible records.
you can order the dawes packet from the oklahoma historical society website.

if you find a relative listed on the dawes roll, fold3 may have filmed the record and could be available online.
http://www.fold3.com/documents/46580455/dawes-packets/
other resources are NARA http://www.archives.gov

the five civilized tribes book put out by the department of the interior has testimony.
http://books.google.com/books/about/Five_civilized_tribes_in_Oklahoma.html?id=chATAAAAYAAJ
and you can read it online

and these are the microfilms at fort worth TX archives.
http://www.archives.gov/southwest/finding-aids/native-american-microfilm.html

there may be additional records about your relative:
contact NARA http://www.archives.gov for these and other records listed on this webpage.

75.23 RECORDS OF THE COMMISSIONER TO THE FIVE CIVILIZED TRIBES 1852-1919
75.23.1 Records of the Dawes Commission
75.23.2 Records of the U.S. Indian Inspector for Indian Territory
75.23.3 General records of the Commissioner to the Five Civilized Tribes
http://www.archives.gov/research/guide-fed-records/groups/075.html
(Record Group 75)
1793-1989

http://okhistory.cuadra.com/star/public.html
oklahoma newspaper and archives search. some of these resources may be available through interlibrary loan/public library.

the tribe has an excellent information to help you. it is found under genealogy advocacy.
http://choctawnation.com/services/departments/community-services/
some obituaries:
http://www.choctawnation.com/history/obituaries/

NARA http://www.archives.gov/ federal records repository. the fort worth, TX office has archives for oklahoma and texas tribes. atlanta/morrow office has archives for the southwest tribes. many offices have microfilmed records for several tribes. note that this web address has changed recently from nara.gov.

freedmen info:
You can ONLY apply for Choctaw Nation Membership, AFTER you have obtained a CDIB card proving your Choctaw Blood lineage to a direct ancestor who actually enrolled, BY BLOOD. Freedmen DID NOT enroll By Blood. When US Congress closed the Final Dawes Commission Rolls, there were no provisions granting Freedmen any benefits after the Dawes Commission closed. The tribe Constitution states BY BLOOD. however, the documents (application, census card and testimony) may help you find out more about your heritage.

about blood quantum laws:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_quantum_laws
calculations about blood quantum:
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~wishawa4/Menominee%20Indians/quantum.htm

mississippi choctaw and choctaw tribe explained here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choctaw_Trail_of_Tears
http://www.choctaw.org/

jena choctaw tribe in louisiana:
http://www.jenachoctaw.org/

MOWA tribe
http://encyclopediaofalabama.org/face/Article.jsp?id=h-1368
http://www.uab.edu/uabmagazine/2009/july/losttribe
http://www.native-american-online.org/MOWA-Choctaw.htm
MOWA Band Of Choctaws Wilford Taylor 1080 Red Fox Road Mount Vernon, AL 36560 (251) 829-5500. E-Mail: chieftaylor@mowachoctaw.com

other choctaw tribes:
http://www.aaanativearts.com/choctaw-indians/index.html

chickasaw historical society
Historic Preservation and Repatriation Office
Phone: (580) 272-5325
Fax: (580) 272-5327
2020 E. Arlington, Suite 4, Ada, OK 74820
send mail to: P.O. Box 1548, Ada, OK 74821

chickasaw tribe
Chickasaw Nation Headquarters
520 East Arlington, Ada, OK 74820
Phone (580) 436-2603
Mailing address: P.O. Box 1548, Ada, OK 74821
http://www.chickasaw.net/index.htm

chickasaw genealogy archive center Tribal Library
Phone: (580) 310-6477
Fax: (580) 559-0773
1003 Chamber Loop, Ada, OK 74820
send mail to: P.O. Box 1548, Ada, OK 74821

http://www.okhistory.org/
oklahoma historical society
marriage records
http://www.okhistory.org/research/library/marriage.html
http://www.okgenweb.org/~okgarvin/kinard/chocmarriageindex.htm

other historical societies:
http://www.daddezio.com/society/hill/SH-OK-NDX.html
some oklahoma genealogical societies:
http://www.censusfinder.com/oklahoma-genealogy-society.htm
http://www.geneasearch.com/societies/socokla.htm

texas tribes
http://www.native-languages.org/texas.htm
http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/texas/index.htm
http://www.texasindians.com/
http://www.lsjunction.com/places/indians.htm

oklahoma tribes:
http://500nations.com/Oklahoma_Tribes.asp
http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/oklahoma/index.htm
http://www.cowboy.net/native/tribes.html

some links for the choctaw.
http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/tribes/choctaw/index.htm
i looked at the land records and those need a lot of work. i have no information about whether or when they will improve some of these categories.

types of records available for native americans:
pages 366-369 in particular although the entire native american chapter is helpful.
The Genealogist’s Companion and Sourcebook:
Guide to the Resources You Need for Unpuzzling Your Past
Emily Anne Croom
you can ask for these particular pages from your local public library. if they don’t have the book, you can get the pages through the interlibrary loan program.
native american records are discussed in pages 352-386.

Tracing ancestors among the Five Civilized Tribes: Southeastern Indians …
By Rachal Mills Lennon
this book could be accessed through the interlibary loan program also.

always find the state archives. some records are online, some records are not. but many times you can find a record not found in other places. you want to see also about newspaper mentions for obituaries, births, marriages in particular.

check courts for probate, civil and criminal cases, marriage records.

if your ancestors lived on a reservation, they might not appear on a federal census because they were not taxed.
http://www.okgenweb.org/~okgarvin/kinard/1860index.htm
1860 census, indian territory.

this book is a good read about the dawes roll and how they implemented it.
The Dawes Commission and the allotment of the Five Civilized Tribes, 1893-1914
By Kent Carter
and you can read this book online. your relatives’ testimony might be in the book.
http://www.archive.org/details/fivecivilizedtr00statgoog
see the menu at left. you can download it.
you should look at the enrollment application, census card and testimony. this post will tell you how to do that. these documents will tell you more about your heritage, but it won’t help you if your goal is to be enrolled in the choctaw tribe of oklahoma. some people were classed as mississippi choctaw if the family had a native heritage but didn’t qualify for enrollment in the tribe.

there are 63 tribes in oklahoma but only the five major tribes are on the dawes roll. look at your family’s location around 1900-1930 time period (census will help you there) and see if there was a tribe located nearby. it is possible that your relatives were affiliated with another tribe.

if they were mississippi choctaw, there is probably a land grant in MS/AL to a head of household called choctaw scrip land. this was given in lieu of tribal enrollment 1830-1880 time period. ancestry.com has a database of the MS and AL choctaw scrip land records, called mississippi or alabama land records. there are other land records in those databases too,, so you have to look at the authority/source cited. NARA http://www.archives.gov has those land record packages.

the mississippi choctaw was not removed from oklahoma. but they were largely rejected for tribal enrollment.

this website might help you in your search. some people are trying to transcribe applications.
http://www.us-census.org/native/choctaw_dawes.html
i do not know what they are trying to transcribe, but this is the volunteer page
http://www.us-census.org/states/graphics/status.htm

and this might be of interest to you:
http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/choctaw/rights-of-choctaws.htm
Rights of Mississippi Choctaws in the Choctaw Nation

http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/finalrolls/
Index to the Final Rolls of the Citizens and Freedmen of the Five Civilized Tribes in Indian Territory
the dawes roll is composed of applications to the five major tribes in oklahoma.

good advice about native research:
http://jenniferhsrn2.homestead.com/research2.html

if your relatives came from a different geographic location or belonged to a different tribe, try searching google for the state and tribes. you might find a contact for a state-recognized tribe or a federal recognized tribe.

this page can help you set up a targeted google search.
http://www.searchforancestors.com/google/searcher.html

penny postcards. this is a website that features pictures that were on postcards. click on the state to see the postcards that they have.
http://www.usgwarchives.org/special/ppcs/ppcs.html
if you have a penny postcard, you can click on submissions to add your penny postcard to the collection.

these searches will combine several possible search terms and give you the best matches.

i have collected many resources over the years. if you want to write to me, shamlet76@gmail.com and request the choctaw resource list, i will be glad to send it to you.

i am just a volunteer that wants to empower people to learn how to do genealogy.

suzanne hamlet shatto

mary Sanders mary Sanders

posted on September 19, 2012

Suzanne Hamlet Shatto,Thanks ever so much, I am looking for my link to the choctaw tribe that my family came from. My Grandma was full blood Choctaw, my Great grandad was 1/2 Cherokee and 1/2 Choctaw. My Dad was 1/4 Choctaw, my Grandmo Renna Little,Johnson was 1/2 choctaw. I donot know what my Dad’s (Toney Row Johnsons) Father was named. We never knew.
I would like to know more about my Dad’s Mom, Renna Ann Little, Johnson but that is all I have. I kno wshe was buried Renna Ann Johnson DOB: 1885 DOD: 1943, Cemetary Dryden Harmon County Okla. I know that we are Choctaw indian decendent, and I need this details to save my grandchildren. The State of Oregon is trying to adopt them out to people from Ireland who are wanting desperately to return to Ireland, and my granddaughters cannot go with them, but currently I have no voice in this as the state has them and will not allow me to adopt them as I have tried. If you can help me I apprecaite it so very much Pastor Mary. Thanks for the details you have provided. Great beginning.

suzanne hamlet shatto suzanne hamlet shatto

posted on September 20, 2012

tribal enrollment and tribal heritage are two different topics.

there were few fullblood choctaws on the dawes roll.

if you are trying to find this information IN A HURRY, i am sorry to disappoint you. you need some documents, need to trace the family back. i do not think this can be accomplished in a short period of time.

1900 United States Federal Census about Rinie A Litle
Name: Rinie A Litle
[Rinie A Little]
[Renie A Little]
Age: 13
Birth Date: Dec 1886
Birthplace: Texas
Home in 1900: Justice Precinct 7, Grayson, Texas
[Grayson]
Race: White
Gender: Female
Relation to Head of House: Daughter
Marital Status: Single
Father’s Name: H F Litle
Father’s Birthplace: Georgia
Mother’s Name: Eliza E Litle
Mother’s Birthplace: Missouri
Occupation: View on Image
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
H F Litle 51
Eliza E Litle 42
Colombus D Litle 19
George Litle 16
Mabell Litle 15
Rinie A Litle 13
Barrett Litle 11
James Litle 9
Marcus G Litle 7
Mary F Litle 5
Eliza E Litle 2
Gettie B Litle 11/12
Source Citation: Year: 1900; Census Place: Justice Precinct 7, Grayson, Texas; Roll: 1640; Page: 9A; Enumeration District: 114; FHL microfilm: 1241640.

1910 United States Federal Census about William Johnson
Name: William Johnson
Age in 1910: 27
29
Birth Year: abt 1881
1881
Birthplace: Arkansas
Home in 1910: Stuart, Hughes, Oklahoma
Race: White
Gender: Male
Relation to Head of House: Head
[Self (Head)]
Marital Status: Married
Spouse’s Name: Renie Johnson
Father’s Birthplace: Louisiana
Mother’s Birthplace: Alabama
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
William Johnson 27
29
Renie Johnson 24
Floyd Johnson 5
Vergie Johnson 3
Tonie Johnson 5/12
0
Source Citation: Year: 1910; Census Place: Stuart, Hughes, Oklahoma; Roll: T624_1255; Page: 6B; Enumeration District: 0112; Image: 431; FHL microfilm: 1375268.

he might be MOWA or jena choctaw or mississippi choctaw, from the birthplaces. you can check with those tribes.

floyd is listed as a stepson of william johnson. all children were b. OK/indian territory.

they rent a farm, another indication that they didn’t apply for enrollment. see the map here. they were on the border of pittsburg county, OK.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hughes_County,_Oklahoma

renna/rena is listed as b. TX, parents b. TX. the trail of tears did not go through texas but there were many unofficial migrations from the southeastern reservations to/through texas.

toney was likely the child of renna/rena little and william johnson.

her parents might have accepted a choctaw scrip land grant in MS/AL

i didn’t find an easy marriage record.

there are many william/w. johnson dawes records but i don’t know if any of them are your relative. you can look at the family group and see if you recognize other family members.
http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/finalroll.php

many natives did not apply for tribal enrollment because there were philosophically opposed to enrollment or they did not qualify. this family appears to me to not qualify for enrollment in the choctaw tribe.

i am sorry if this is the case.

mary Sanders mary Sanders

posted on September 21, 2012

dEAR sUZZANE,
The Reni Johnson/Litle is my grandma
You have the exact individuals I am looking for. Please I need to know if you can help me to find which tribal group so I can call or email them or something. The person Renie(Litle) Johnson, William Johnson, this is the names I am needing. I know that my grandma was born around 1885 lived until 1943, and was in the Oklahoma indian territory.
I am urgently trying to find a way to locate her roll ID # and to get the specific location on the tribe so I can send for this.You have done a Great Job, I am not able to access the Http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/finalroll.php; I am having problems in access to this site? I wonder if they would have enrolled on any other tribe? My Grandma Renna Ann Litle(little) was indian I know. I know that she was married to a person who had children alreadey. The name of the Floyd Johnson was my Dad’s half brother.Vergie Johnson was my Aunt, she was my Dad’s sister.I am so very close, and with your help I can save my Grandchildren from being adopted out to Non family people.
I am so close. Thank you So much for all of your help. I am excited that you have found this and I have been looking for so long. Please tell me your secret? I am struggling.
Thank you is so little but means so much.

mary Sanders mary Sanders

posted on September 21, 2012

Dear Suzzane,
Urgently need your help. I have a DAWS record of 788 Willie Amos, and Lucinda Amos 1416 on the Choctaw Missippi Tribe. I have information indicating that these two are my relatives.
I need to locate where they were born, and died so I can arrange to get the certifided record, they are my Grandma Willie Ann Lucinda Amos/ Goodmans mom and Dad.
The date I have is around 1874 whenmy grandma Willie got married to Goodman that is what I know. Is there a way to find out where they were born, and where they are buired so I can collect a Birth record or a death record?
I need your expertise in this. Please Thanks a lot. Pastor Mary

suzanne hamlet shatto suzanne hamlet shatto

posted on September 22, 2012

you are talking about a common name here.

Dawes Card Information

tribe last first middle age sex blood card roll misc type
Choctaw Amos Wahkonah 0 M MCR4474 P
Choctaw Amos Willie 8 M FULL MCR4474 1428 MCR
Choctaw Amos Bennett 14 M FULL MCR4474 1427 MCR
Choctaw Amos Cleveland 17 M FULL MCR4474 1426 MCR
Choctaw Amos Dora 19 F FULL MCR4474 1425 MCR
Choctaw Amos Jasper 20 M FULL MCR4474 1424 MCR
Choctaw Amos Lissa 58 F FULL MCR4474 1423 MCR
Choctaw Amos Wes 62 M FULL MCR4474 1422 MCR
Choctaw Martin Sallie 0 F MCR4474 P
Choctaw Okintolah Becky 0 F MCR4474 P
Choctaw Weshock Martin 0 M MCR4474 P
p=parent
MCR=mississippi choctaw refused. some of these were enrolled in the tribe, by council adoption and lawsuit. i do not know if this family was enrolled.

this appears to be a different family.

Dawes Card Information

tribe last first middle age sex blood card roll misc type
Choctaw Allen Liney 0 F 1217 P
Choctaw Allen Solomon 0 M 1217 P
Choctaw Amos Susie 0 F 1217 P
Choctaw Amos Kana 1 M FULL 1217 14648 KULLI TUKLO BB
Choctaw Amos Esias 17 M FULL 1217 3311 KULLI TUKLO BB
Choctaw Amos Amancy 25 F FULL 1217 3310 KULLI TUKLO BB
Choctaw Amos Susan 45 F FULL 1217 3309 KULLI TUKLO BB
Choctaw Amos William 56 M FULL 1217 3308 KULLI TUKLO BB
Choctaw Dyer Louis 0 M 1217 P
Choctaw Dyer Granson 1 M FULL 1217 14649 KULLI TUKLO BB
Choctaw Harley Calvin 0 M 1217 P
Choctaw Harley Maggie 23 F FULL 1217 3312 KULLI TUKLO BB
Choctaw Ishtahnube 0 M 1217 P
Choctaw Kana Atube Mary 0 F 1217 P
Choctaw PO She Mar 0 F 1217 P
Choctaw Robert David 0 M 1217 P
Choctaw Robert David 6 M FULL 1217 3313 KULLI TUKLO BB
Choctaw Wa Ka Ya 0 M 1217 P
Choctaw Wa Ka Ya Siney 0 F 1217 P

are either of these families your family. if they are, you can get a copy of their enrollment application, census card and testimony. fold3.com might have it online. oklahoma historical society probably has the documents. NARA fort worth, TX probably has the documents. what you want is the dawes packet. see the previous posts for addresses and contact information for this.

if these people aren’t your family, then those dawes records won’t help you.

you need to know that many people did not apply for tribal enrollment because they were philosophically opposed or they didn’t qualify for the tribe.

i am not clear on your family’s genealogy because you don’t give dates and locations when you talk about trying to find one name.

you have to collect birth and death certificates from the state vital records down to an original enrollee of the tribe. i don’t know that you are related to an original enrollee of the tribe.

the card#’s on the dawes roll taken 1896-1906 in indian territory/oklahoma are the family group.

http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/finalroll.php
this website is up. you can search by partial names.

there are 63 tribes in oklahoma and my previous post gives you contact information for them.

location is a major factor with tribal enrollment. you have to know where your family lived 1900-1930, since that is when a lot of tribes enrolled members. if your family was not enrolled, they might have been affiliated with a tribe 1800-1900 and location would be important – were they living on a reservation, did they accept a land grant called choctaw scrip given in lieu of tribal enrollment.

you should get a copy of the vital records of the relatives on down to the people who were alive at the time of enrollment. contact state vital records where they passed away, state vital records where they were born. sometimes you will order a death record and it doesn’t have the information you want. but most of the time it does.
http://vitalrec.com/
this is an online service.
vital records are often at state vital records or county clerk offices.

i would advise you to start with what you know, gather documents, then go backward in time. do not order documents when you don’t have information just because you want that information. start with your birth certificate, then your parents’ birth certificates, then your grandmother’s birth certificate.

when you get down to the 1900-1930 time period, you might have to ask for a copy of a delayed birth record from vital records. you have to ask for this at the same time as you ask for a birth certificate (and vitalrec should not be used for this because you are asking for two different types of records). you need to ask for both because they might not have been filed chronologically. when social security went into effect in 1937, many people had to apply for a delayed birth certificate.

records before 1930 could be at state vital records, the county clerk or state archives. state historical societies are often helpful with this also.

although you want tribal information, you have to collect the other documents. you should find the census records in the 1900-1930 time period for the family so that you know who the family members were, where they lived, approximate birthdates.

the key to this is organization.

one of the good ways to accomplish this is to download a genealogy program, such as legacy software, so that it can keep track of the people you are looking for, the information you found.
http://www.legacyfamilytree.com/
this is a free download.

the census will give you an approximate birthdate, birthplace. the death certificate will give you an approximate birthdate, birthplace.

always look for the census, vital records first, so that you know more about the family. after that, you can look for native documents.

i know that you are doing this because you have a deadline and you are trying to find tribal enrollment quickly. i cannot help with this. you could contact the tribe and ask them about enrollment of your ancestors. i don’t think the tribe reads this messageboard. but this is a process and often takes six months or more. sometimes you need a record because you don’t know what it says and you have to wait until it arrives to use the information that is on it.

i have given you the links and information about how to do this fastest but it might not be a process that is fast enough for your purposes.

suzanne hamlet shatto

mary Sanders mary Sanders

posted on September 23, 2012

Dear Suzanne Here is a name that was my GrandFather Blueford Calvin Goodman’s Mom, Her name was Mary E. Amos, Dob: 1871 DOD 1909, she lived in Taloka Township, Haskel Okla. She was the head of the house hold cause her husband died His name was Calvin C. Goodman. I know that my Grandpa Cath Elijah Goodman was indian, they lived in Hoopkins County around 1898.y Granddad went by the name of Coddie Goodman, My Granddad lived Delta Texas and went by the name of Coddie ( Cathie) was his name. He was born aroun 1898 he died at Dawson Texas as I was there when it happened. I know that my Granddad was Choctaw and Cherokee, and the woman he was married to was Choctaw indian. I am trying to go back on the Goodman side as I know that both my granddad and my grandmother were indian. I am trying to stay with the Goodman side. Can you help me on this. Please let me know the Amos that was foudn was not the right onel. Thanks for your response. Pastor Mary Sanders

suzanne hamlet shatto suzanne hamlet shatto

posted on September 23, 2012

Dawes Card Information

tribe last first middle age sex blood card roll misc type
Choctaw Goodman Mary Cordelia 0 F M570 P
Choctaw Goodman Toney S 0 M M570 P
Choctaw Goodman William Aron 1 M 1/64 M570 479 LINN M

http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/finalroll.php
here is where you look up names on the dawes roll. be sure and click on the guide so that you know what the codes are.

look for tribes near where your family lived 1900-1930, since that is when many tribes were enrolling natives.
also look at the texas tribes.
there are links in my first post.

where are you getting the names and dates and locations?

1900 United States Federal Census about Bluford Goodman
Name: Bluford Goodman
Age: 27
Birth Date: Jan 1875
Birthplace: Texas
Home in 1900: Justice Precinct 5, Hopkins, Texas
[Hopkins]
Race: White
Gender: Male
Relation to Head of House: Head
Marital Status: Married
Spouse’s Name: Millie Goodman
Marriage Year: 1897
Years Married: 3
Father’s Birthplace: Texas
Mother’s Birthplace: Texas
Occupation: View on Image
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Bluford Goodman 27
Millie Goodman 30
Cassie E Goodman 1
Source Citation: Year: 1900; Census Place: Justice Precinct 5, Hopkins, Texas; Roll: 1646; Page: 15B; Enumeration District: 55; FHL microfilm: 1241646.

1880 United States Federal Census about Bluford C. Goodman
Name: Bluford C. Goodman
Age: 4
Birth Year: abt 1876
Birthplace: Texas
Home in 1880: Precinct 3, Franklin, Texas
Race: White
Gender: Male
Relation to Head of House: Grandson
Marital Status: Single
Father’s Birthplace: Texas
Mother’s Name: Mary A. Goodman
Mother’s Birthplace: South Carolina
Neighbors: View others on page
Cannot read/write:

Blind:

Deaf and dumb:

Otherwise disabled:

Idiotic or insane:

View image
Household Members:
Name Age
Lewis Ammons 59
Mary A. Goodman 31
Sarah L.A. Goodman 7
Matilda E. Goodman 6
Bluford C. Goodman 4
Source Citation: Year: 1880; Census Place: Precinct 3, Franklin, Texas; Roll: 1304; Family History Film: 1255304; Page: 426A; Enumeration District: 033; .

if they were living in texas, they would not have applied for enrollment to a tribe in oklahoma.

the trail of tears did not go through texas. unofficial migrations occurred. many of the natives that left the reservation after the trail of tears in the late 1830’s were called mississippi choctaw. this is a separate tribe.

Texas Death Index, 1903-2000 about Bleford Galvia Goodman
Name: Bleford Galvia Goodman
[Bluford Calvin Goodman]
Death Date: 22 Mar 1937
Death County: Falls
Certificate: 14260

U.S., World War I Draft Registration Cards, 1917-1918 about Bluford Goodman
Name: Bluford Goodman
County: Lamar
State: Texas
Birth Date: 20 Jan 1874
Race: White
Draft Board: 2

i don’t know if this is the millie.

Texas Death Index, 1903-2000 about Matilda Artema Crockett
Name: Matilda Artema Crockett
Death Date: 3 Jul 1942
Death County: Harris
Certificate: 31762

Texas Death Index, 1903-2000 about Catoh E. Goodman
Name: Catoh E. Goodman
Death Date: 25 Dec 1952
Death County: Dawson
Certificate: 59168

i have given you the links to the resources that i use.

mississippi choctaw and choctaw tribe explained here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choctaw_Trail_of_Tears
http://www.choctaw.org/

texas tribes
http://www.native-languages.org/texas.htm
http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/texas/index.htm
http://www.texasindians.com/
http://www.lsjunction.com/places/indians.htm

mary Sanders mary Sanders

posted on September 25, 2012 and updated on September 25, 2012

Greetings Suzanne, You have given me the correct Millie and the right Cath Goodman and Blueford Goodman, Thanks for this details.
However I may have found my Grandma Maggie Myrtle Goodman/Brown’s sisters rolls. Her name was Minnie E. Brown, She was born 1876 she lived in Elpaso texas, this was my Grandma’s Sister. I know that My mom’s Dad was Jefferson Bolin Brown,
I know that my Grandma’s Brother was Thomas Jefferson Brown, He was a resident 1920 and lived in Harris Texsas a date of Birth I have was 1886. I know that my Grandma Myrtle Brown was indian, but maybe not Choctaw, or Cherokee. Please can you help me on this The details I have given you is all that I have. And without spending a lot of money to send down to the Indian nations I need someone like yourself who is an expert, and has a very high contact with the native american heritage. I am running into brick walls, but I do know that my Uncle was Thomas jefferson Brown, and that My Great Aunt was Minnie E. Brown. I know that they were indians.Can you help me with this as I am running into complications on the Goodman side. Thanks and God bless.

suzanne hamlet shatto suzanne hamlet shatto

posted on September 25, 2012 and updated on September 25, 2012

most texas natives did not apply for enrollment.

i don’t see jefferson bolin brown on the dawes roll.

if they were in texas, you need to look for a texas tribe.

these are not direct ancestors of yours, so i’m not sure that will help you in this situation.

i am not native. i have no connection with tribes in texas. you have to look at the texas tribe link in the first post.

the only maggie goodman on the dawes roll was 1 year old in the time period 1896-1906, so it is probably not your maggie goodman.

Dawes Card Information

tribe last first middle age sex blood card roll misc type
Choctaw Goodman John T 0 M MCR880 P
Choctaw Goodman Maggie G 1 F 1/16 MCR880 MCR
Choctaw Goodman Gus Adolph 4 M 1/16 MCR880 MCR
Choctaw Goodman Noma Ethel 5 F 1/16 MCR880 MCR
Choctaw Goodman William C 7 M 1/16 MCR880 MCR
Choctaw Goodman Mary C 14 F 1/16 MCR880 MCR
Choctaw Goodman Ludie Irene 18 F 1/16 MCR880 MCR
Choctaw Goodman Mary M 41 F 1/8 MCR880 MCR
Choctaw Halfacre Fred 0 M MCR880 P
Choctaw Halfacre Harriet 0 F MCR880 P

p=parent
this family was mississippi choctaw and was probably not enrolled.

this is a very common name:

1900 United States Federal Census about Thomas Brown
Name: Thomas Brown
Age: 14
Birth Date: Apr 1886
Birthplace: Texas
Home in 1900: Justice Precinct 1, Harris, Texas
[Harris]
Race: White
Gender: Male
Relation to Head of House: Son
Marital Status: Single
Father’s Birthplace: Texas
Mother’s Name: Laura ? Burnett
Mother’s Birthplace: Texas
Occupation: View on Image
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Laura ? Burnett 35
Lor? B Brown 18
Laura Brown 16
Thomas Brown 14
Robert Burner 26
Source Citation: Year: 1900; Census Place: Justice Precinct 1, Harris, Texas; Roll: 1642; Page: 8B; Enumeration District: 94; FHL microfilm: 1241642.

i don’t know if this person is your relative. there are 56 of the names of thomas brown on the 1900 census.

the minnie browns on the dawes roll are children, not around 20 years old.

Choctaw Brown Minnie 0 F M345 P
Choctaw Brown Minnie 1 F 1/8 4595 NR INDIANOLA BB
Choctaw Brown Minnie G 1 F 1/32 5060 NR COMANCHE BB
Choctaw Brown Minnie Gertrude 2 F 1/64 6019 NR COMANCHE BB
Choctaw Brown Minnie 6 F FULL 1322 3594 JANIS BB
Choctaw Brown Minnie 8 F NR R41 R
Choctaw Brown Minnie E 9 F 1/8 R736 R

there is no minnie goodman on the dawes roll.

this is the 1900 census:
iew Record Name Parent or Spouse Names Home in 1900
(City, County, State) Birth Date Birthplace Relation to Head of House View Image
View Record Minnie Goodman Jason Justice Precinct 1, Fannin, Texas Jul 1857 North Carolina Wife
View Record Minnie Goodman C Wright Justice Precinct 1, Cass, Texas Nov 1873 Texas Wife
View Record Minnie Goodman Martin Justice Precinct 1, Angelina, Texas Mar 1875 Texas Wife
View Record Minnie Goodman Andrew,
Mary Justice Precinct 2, Falls, Texas Mar 1880 Texas Daughter
View Record Minnie M Goodman Henry W Justice Precinct 1, Hill, Texas Feb 1880 Tennessee Wife
View Record Minnie Goodman James,
Mary Justice Precinct 1, Somervell, Texas Jul 1881 Texas Daughter
View Record Minnie M Goodman Rufus,
Sarah F Justice Precinct 8, Collin, Texas Jul 1895 Texas Daughter
View Record Minnie Goodman Clayton,
Annie Justice Precinct 6, Llano, Texas Jul 1897 Texas Daughter
View Record Minnie O Goodman John C,
Elizabeth Justice Precinct 1, Nacogdoches, Texas Oct 1898 Texas Daughter

this is a map:
http://www.native-languages.org/texas.htm
texas tribes.
there are several links on that page, a couple of reservations.

both brown and goodman are very common names.

you write but give me very little information so it takes me a long time to search.

you should not contact a tribe until you find out where people lived. i don’t know when and where to look. if you are thinking they are in el paso, TX, when were they there?

i don’t know who got married to who. her sister’s married name is brown too? this is very confusing.

U.S., World War I Draft Registration Cards, 1917-1918 about Thomas Jefferson Brown
Name: Thomas Jefferson Brown
County: Harris
State: Texas
Birth Date: 28 Sep 1885
Race: White

1920 United States Federal Census about T J Brown
Name: T J Brown
[Thomas Jefferson Brown]
[T I?? Brown]
Age: 34
Birth Year: abt 1886
Birthplace: Arkansas
Home in 1920: Justice Precinct 4, Harris, Texas
Race: White
Gender: Male
Relation to Head of House: Head
Marital Status: Married
Spouse’s Name: Jessie Brown
Father’s Birthplace: Arkansas
Mother’s Birthplace: Arkansas
Home Owned: Rent
Able to Read: Yes
Able to Write: Yes
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
T J Brown 34
Jessie Brown 29
Tom Brown 12
Dorothy Brown 10
Madge Brown 8
Ruth Brown 6
Claud Brown 3
Source Citation: Year: 1920; Census Place: Justice Precinct 4, Harris, Texas; Roll: T625_1815; Page: 5B; Enumeration District: 115; Image: 386.

is that the brother’s family?

Social Security Death Index about Thomas Brown
Name: Thomas Brown
SSN: 548-07-0324
Last Residence: 90805 Long Beach, Los Angeles, California, United States of America
Born: 28 Sep 1885
Died: Dec 1968
State (Year) SSN issued: California (Before 1951)
is this his death record?

i am not finding good records. i have to stop.

you need better information, such as date of birth, place of birth, date of death, place of death, spouse name, childrens’ names.

it is not magic, but it is just trying names in different years to see what i can find. you should go to the public library and use ancestry.com to look at census records. then you will know more about your family.

mary Sanders mary Sanders

posted on September 27, 2012

Greetings Suzanne. I am praying that you have some way of looking at the Dawes records and determining a persons name, and so forth on the records.
I have some Dawes records I would like to have you check out. I was informed by a distant relative that my G-Granddas William Johnson was a Cherokee/Choctaw indian. Here are some names and Daws records can you please check them out.William E. Johnson # 6922- Choctaw
Chiasaw: Wm Monford Johnson # 3774
Wm. A. Johnson #1798
W. Johnson # 2406
~~~~~~~~
Cherokee: William O. Johnson # 1799
Wm. Johnson # 1961
Wm Johnson # 10440
Wm.R. Johnson # 13304
Wm. I. Johnson # 14748
Wm. E. Johnson # 15570
Wm. M. Johnson # 15576
Wm. B. Johnson # 17465
Wm. Johnson # 32521
I was informed by my Distant relative that
my G-Grandad was also a William Johnson.
I donot know his middle name or his address.
Just that he came from the Mississippi, indian tribes.
Thanks for your expertise in this direction.

mary Sanders mary Sanders

posted on September 27, 2012

  1. 2 Greetings Suzanne,
    This relative also informed me that my G- grandmothers name was Mary Ellen Griffith/Brown.
    Here are some names from the various tribes of the Dawes rolls Please could you refine for me?
    Choctaw: Mary Brown # 1374
    Mary Brown # 7463
    Mary Brown # 9018
    Chicsaw: Mary Brown # 1729
    Cherokee: Mary Brown # 7224
    Mary Brown # 4817

I know this is reaching but I am now doing some of the locating name of my own on Ancestory com that you suggested. So I am trying, the names are some of the names that a different relative is researching on the Dawes rolls for us but we need someone like yourself that is an expert on this native american researc, So we apprecaite your expertise in all of this. thanks for all of your help.
Pastor Mary Sanders

suzanne hamlet shatto suzanne hamlet shatto

posted on September 27, 2012

what was her name at the time of the 1900 census? when was she born/where was she born? where did she pass away/when? who was her husband? when you don’t give me this information in your post, i spend a lot more time searching.

when you check the dawes roll, use this link:
http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/finalroll.php
partial names are fine.

then when you find a relative, you can click on the # in the column of the card# and see the family members. this way you can tell whether it is your relative or someone else.

you should have the card# (family group), as well as the enrollment # (tribe member #).

there are 93 mary brown records on the dawes roll.

Dawes Card Information

tribe last first middle age sex blood card roll misc type
Choctaw Brown Byington 0 M 599 P
Choctaw Brown Austin 7 M FULL 599 1375 KULLI TUKLO BB
Choctaw Brown Mary 10 F FULL 599 1374 KULLI TUKLO BB
Choctaw Brown Grayson 12 M FULL 599 1373 KULLI TUKLO BB
Choctaw Brown Agnes 50 F FULL 599 1372 KULLI TUKLO BB
Choctaw John 0 M 599 P

bb=by blood
p=parent

i don’t see the mary brown enrollment # 7463. you might have made a mistake in typing.

i don’t see mary brown enrollment #9018.

don’t adjust your glasses. the transcriber did accidentally put these in twice:

Dawes Card Information

tribe last first middle age sex blood card roll misc type
Chickasaw Barnes John F 0 M 576 P
Chickasaw Barnes John F 0 M 576 P
Chickasaw Barnes Vilura 0 F 576 P
Chickasaw Barnes Vitura 0 F 576 P
Chickasaw Brown Aaron 0 M 576 P
Chickasaw Brown Aaron 0 M 576 P
Chickasaw Brown Millie 0 F 576 P
Chickasaw Brown Millie 0 F 576 P
Chickasaw Brown Rolia 0 F 576 P
Chickasaw Brown Rolia 0 F 576 P
Chickasaw Brown Guy 1 M 1/2 576 1734 BB
Chickasaw Brown Guy 1 M 1/2 576 1734 BB
Chickasaw Brown Joe 1 M 1/2 576 1730 BB
Chickasaw Brown Joe 1 M 1/2 576 1730 BB
Chickasaw Brown Mary 2 F 1/2 576 1729 BB
Chickasaw Brown Mary 2 F 1/2 576 1729 BB
Chickasaw Brown Rolia 30 F IW 576 217 BB
Chickasaw Brown Rolia 30 F IW 576 IW217 BB
Chickasaw Brown Joe 33 M FULL 576 1728 BB
Chickasaw Brown Joe 33 M FULL 576 1728 BB
Chickasaw Sealy Jewell 0 M 576 P
Chickasaw Sealy Jewell 0 M 576 P
Chickasaw Sealy Lottie 0 F 576 P
Chickasaw Sealy Lottie 0 F 576 P
Chickasaw Sealy Alice 9 F FULL 576 1733 BB
Chickasaw Sealy Alice 9 F FULL 576 1733 BB
Chickasaw Sealy Holmes 11 M FULL 576 1732 BB
Chickasaw Sealy Holmes 11 M FULL 576 1732 BB
Chickasaw Sealy Clarence 13 M FULL 576 1731 BB
Chickasaw Sealy Clarence 13 M FULL 576 1731 BB

Dawes Card Information

tribe last first middle age sex blood card roll misc type
Cherokee Brown Thomas 0 M 2875 P
Cherokee Brown Henry F 14 M 1/16 2875 7225 BB
Cherokee Brown Mary 58 F 1/8 2875 7224 BB
Cherokee Miller David 0 M 2875 P
Cherokee Miller Ollie 0 F 2875 P

Dawes Card Information

tribe last first middle age sex blood card roll misc type
Cherokee Brown Isabelle 0 F 1818 P
Cherokee Brown William 0 M 1818 P
Cherokee Brown John 1 M 1/32 1818 4820 BB
Cherokee Brown Finis 2 M 1/32 1818 4821 BB
Cherokee Brown Louis 3 M 1/32 1818 4819 BB
Cherokee Brown Charles 4 M 1/32 1818 4818 BB
Cherokee Brown Mary 9 F 1/32 1818 4817 BB
Cherokee Brown Ada 13 F 1/32 1818 4816 BB
Cherokee Brown Bell 29 F 1/16 1818 4815 BB
Cherokee Brown William 36 M IW 1818 23082 BB
Cherokee Cobb Thomas 0 M 1818 P
Cherokee Perkins Mary A 0 F 1818 P

as i have told you, gathering documents will take you some time, months. applying for membership will take you months because the tribe does not take action as soon as they receive the application. it is not uncommon for this process to take six months to a year.

if mary brown was living somewhere else in 1900, then she probably would not have applied to a tribe in oklahoma/indian territory. if mary brown was married at the time, she would likely be listed in her married name. if she was not, and she was younger, then she would be under her maiden name.

you should know all the family members with her in the 1900 census.

mary Sanders mary Sanders

posted on September 28, 2012

Greetings Suzanne, Thanks so much for the details you have provided.
I am looking up this details I have found
some more details on my Grandpa Johnson
Here is his name: William E. Johnson
DOB: 1883 in Arkansas, He got married at a
late age, around 1908, I believe he was 1/2 Cherokee but not sure if he was registered.
He married my Grandma Renie A. Little (AKA) Litle, she was born Dec. 1886 in Grayson tex, she died in Harmon County, Hollis Okla. 1943
Please if you can research the records to see
if these two are listed? thanks pastor Mary

suzanne hamlet shatto suzanne hamlet shatto

posted on September 29, 2012

there are over 500 possible william johnson records on the 1900 census. i don’t know the name of his parents, if he was living with them.

1900 United States Federal Census about William Johnson
Name: William Johnson
Age: 17
Birthplace: Arkansas
Home in 1900: Township 10, Choctaw Nation, Indian Territory
Race: White
Gender: Male
Relation to Head of House: Son
Father’s Name: Henry K Johnson
Mother’s Name: Mattie Johnson
Occupation: View on Image
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Henry K Johnson 52
Mattie Johnson 23
Joseph A Johnson 8
Abel M Johnson 5
Benjamin H Johnson 19
William Johnson 17
Charles E Johnson 10
Joseph Pierce 65
Source Citation: Year: 1900; Census Place: Township 10, Choctaw Nation, Indian Territory; Roll: 1850; Enumeration District: 75; FHL microfilm: 1241850.

i don’t know if this is your relative. first i look to see where he was living in 1900.
this might be a william h. johnson.

there are 85 william johnson records on the dawes roll. without more information such as parents’ names, there is no way to determine whether he is on the dawes roll or not. since there are many records on the 1900 census, i don’t know whether any of the census records apply.

1900 United States Federal Census about Rinie A Litle
Name: Rinie A Litle
[Rinie A Little]
[Renie A Little]
Age: 13
Birth Date: Dec 1886
Birthplace: Texas
Home in 1900: Justice Precinct 7, Grayson, Texas
[Grayson]
Race: White
Gender: Female
Relation to Head of House: Daughter
Marital Status: Single
Father’s Name: H F Litle
Father’s Birthplace: Georgia
Mother’s Name: Eliza E Litle
Mother’s Birthplace: Missouri
Occupation: View on Image
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
H F Litle 51
Eliza E Litle 42
Colombus D Litle 19
George Litle 16
Mabell Litle 15
Rinie A Litle 13
Barrett Litle 11
James Litle 9
Marcus G Litle 7
Mary F Litle 5
Eliza E Litle 2
Gettie B Litle 11/12
Source Citation: Year: 1900; Census Place: Justice Precinct 7, Grayson, Texas; Roll: 1640; Page: 9A; Enumeration District: 114; FHL microfilm: 1241640.

there are no “ren” “lit” records on the dawes roll that would fit the information of your ancestor.

mary Sanders mary Sanders

posted on September 29, 2012

Suzanne Thank you for all of your help.
some of the names listed on your list are names of my Grandma Mary Littles side of the house. Eliza was my Grandma littles mom.
Please I am trying to piece together the details that you are asking for and I can only give you what I have. I will go back to the drawing board, and see if I can refine the details on William E. Johnson, but I do know that he was 1/2 Cherokee indian. I will try to refine the details of my relatives that I have asked for you to check on. I am needing to find a good rope that I can grab hold of and currently all of the ones I have submitted to you; you are not giving me any hope. Please I know that you are having a problem in working with me on this, but a lot of the details you have provided has been some details that indicate to me that we are in the right direction. Eliza Mary Marcus these are names of my Grandma Little’s brothers and family.
She went my Rinie A. Little so I am going to go back and check the roll on Rinie A. Little becase you are showing some good records here. Please don’t give up on me, I truely need your expertise as you are getting us closer and closer. Please hang in there with me on this.
Thanks In Jesus name pastor Mary

suzanne hamlet shatto suzanne hamlet shatto

posted on September 29, 2012

the relationship between the 1900 census and the dawes roll taken 1896-1906 is that the names in the family group on the dawes roll should match with the names in the 1900 census.

rinie little’s family was living in grayson county, TX. it is unlikely that they applied to a tribe in oklahoma/indian territory because they were not living there. if they were living in grayson county, TX, and they were native, they were probably mississippi choctaw. only the early mississippi choctaw natives who were living in oklahoma might have been adopted by the tribe around 1896, but since your family didn’t live in oklahoma at that time, the chances for this are extremely small. there were a few mississippi choctaw that were enrolled by lawsuit, but again, the chances of this were small. most of the mississippi choctaw were not enrolled because they didn’t meet the qualifications of the tribe. consequently, many mississippi choctaw did not apply. the mississippi choctaw became a tribe and has a 1929 census of original enrollees but this included only those natives that still lived in MS/AL area, in the tribal areas. with the mississippi choctaw, natives had to prove at least 1/2 blood quantum of that tribe as a requirement of membership to the mississippi choctaw tribe.

one of the requirements of the choctaw tribe of oklahoma is that the applicants had to be living in indian territory/oklahoma by 1900. another qualification is that their family had to have gone on the trail of tears in the late 1830’s. the trail of tears did not go through texas. the later migration from the southeast, or the continued residence in the southeasst, is what designated people as mississippi choctaw. many unofficial migrations occurred from the southeast to/through texas.

the mississippi choctaw later were recognized as a tribe, in 1929, but their requirement was that the family still lived in tribal areas in the southeast.

every tribe that has been recognized has original enrollees.

if a family moved away from a tribal area and didn’t move into a tribal area, then the chances that they are a tribal member become extremely small. this is because the tribes established membership, became a government. any members had to be living in tribal areas and under the authority of a tribal government.

did this disenfranchise people? yes. many natives did not enroll in a tribe because they did not meet the requirements of membership of different tribes.

so:
1) in 1830s, the treaty of rabbit creek was signed. one provision said that tribal members could give up tribal enrollment and claim land called choctaw scrip in lieu of tribal enrollment.
2) natives that did not do this were instructed to go on the trail of tears in the late 1830s, register at depots, and move to indian territory/oklahoma. there are lists of people who agreed to go on the trail of tears and lists of people who arrived in indian territory/oklahoma.
3) natives that began arriving in oklahoma/indian territory are on several native census reports because they were considered untaxed if they lived on reservations. natives that were not living in indian territory/oklahoma were taxed and they appear on the federal census reports.
4) then congress mandated that natives have a formal enrollment procedure. the tribes had to define requirements for membership. this was put into effect 1896-1900 for most tribes that had been recognized by the federal government.
5) the first attempt to define tribal members was considered flawed and the tribes were instructed to begin again. so there is a 1896 application for some people. the choctaw council adopted some mississippi choctaw into their tribe during that first attempt.
6) the testimony of people in support of their application for membership answers many questions about whether they were members of that particular tribe.
7) natives that were living in indian territory/oklahoma who applied for enrollment had to agree to live under the authority of the tribal government permanently. some natives did not want to agree to this point.

did tribes have different membership requirements? yes. tribes had to decide on the membership requirements for their particular tribe.

this is how tribal membership and tribal heritage differ.

there were over a million people who lived in indian territory/oklahoma by the 1900 census. there were about 160,000 applications to the five major tribes. and many less were enrolled as tribal members. there were also oklahoma land rushes and business opportunities that drew people to oklahoma 1850 and later. and some natives wanted to live in oklahoma but either didn’t qualify or didn’t want to become tribal members.

tribal enrollment was controversial. some people were philosophically opposed and some people did not qualify for membership. some candidates for office even ran on platforms against the enrollment procedure.

in the 1900 census, the federal government stopped generating separate native census reports and enumerated everyone, whether living on tribal land or not. there was an indian population schedule 1900 and people were enumerated on the indian population schedule if they lived in tribal areas of oklahoma/indian territory. if your people were not on the indian population schedule, it means that they lived in non-tribal areas, where the majority of the people were not native and not on reservation land.

did this enrollment procedure disenfranchise people? yes. it was not the tribe’s fault. it is the fact that the federal government required that tribes adopt standards of membership if they wanted to be recognized as tribes. there were a great many caucasians showing up on reservations and wanting tribal benefits. there had to be a way to deal with this circumstance.

while land had been set aside as living areas, there were resources later discovered that were valuable near/on those lands. the discovery of oil, gold, and other minerals were later discovered and this made land more valuable.

some tribal members who had been given land did not survive – and a deed was presented, with an x for a signature, transferring the land to a nontribal member.

what i am telling you is that if you family did not live in indian territory/oklahoma by 1900 there is little chance that they had applied for enrollment in a tribe in indian territory/oklahoma. many people who had a tribal heritage did not live in indian territory/oklahoma, so this is not an unusual circumstance.

the 1900 census showed:
1) people living in oklahoma/indian territory where the majority of the people were not native.
2) people living in oklahoma/indian territory where the majority of people were native.
3) native people living outside of oklahoma and not on a reservation. some of these people later formed tribes that were recognized by state or federal authorities as a tribe, with original enrollees of that tribe.

some of the people in 1) and 2) applied for enrollment in a tribe and were granted tribal land.

in the 1910 census, there was a question about land ownership. rental, for instance, means the family did not own the land that they lived on. usually the tribal members showed up as owning land free and clear. most of those were farms.

there are 63 tribes in oklahoma. the dawes roll shows only the five major tribes of oklahoma taken 1896-1906.

there are still some tribes that are trying to get recognition from the federal government or state government. the location is very important because natives had to live under tribal authority in order to be members.

there were many families that had native heritage but made some choices that did not qualify them for membership in a tribe. this happened to many people. many natives had strong feeling against the united states government because of the historical decisions that impacted native families. some viewed the enrollment procedures as artificially designating people as tribal members and nontribal members. all tribes had to have qualifications for membership to their particular tribe. and some people did not want to live under the tribal authority of any tribal government.

some people found that they would rather live in areas where they shared a common culture, so they moved into tribal areas without being tribal members.

i understand that you want to establish that your grandchildren are under the tribal authority of a tribe so that an adoption procedure does not apply. however, it usually takes several months to gather records, several months to apply and be recognized if you meet the qualifications of the tribe. tribal heritage and tribal enrollment are two different things.

most families that enrolled in a tribe are aware that their family enrolled in a tribe. there are few “lost” tribal members.

i understand that your personal situation is upsetting to you and that you want to change something that is now occurring and you think that tribal membership will change that. i don’t know that this is so. it sounds as if many things occurred without your permission, acceptance. i understand that. many things have also occurred in my life without my permission and i have had to accept things that were out of my control also.

i am not a member of the tribe and am not native. i do not even live in this area. i choose to use my experience with tribal records and genealogy to help people learn about genealogy and find resources. i answer these inquiries on the choctaw messageboard as a random act of kindness. the tribe is aware that i answer these inquiries, have been doing so for the past 10 years, and i have corresponded with them about particular questions. the tribe probably does not read the messageboard but just provides a forum for inquiries so that others can have a point of contact, have a place to exchange posts.

my experience with tribal records dates from thirty years ago, when i discovered the kind of tribal records at the census bureau. a family had told me that they had been disenfranchised by enrollment procedures a long time ago, so i sought resources for them. upon discovery of other resources, i tried to interest someone in the family to research them unsuccessfully. i tried to interest a university anthropology professor in the resources but he just wanted to sign me up for an internship to research the records. the census department requested that i preserve the records at the census department. everyone wanted me to take on a project free and i had to concern myself with my available time, effort, and the fact that i also had to earn a living. i had to turn down all of them because of my personal circumstances. i think the records should be preserved but i could not personally take on a project so large and unending.

then, among my friends, other people began asking me questions about their tribal heritage. so i tried to help them. i found there were commonalities between tribes, between the things that occurred. i found two things: 1) when people got their answer, they were not interested in other records, and 2) if people did not get the answer they wanted, they thought that there would be other documents that would prove what they thought/hoped to be true. but they wanted me to find this elusive answer and didn’t want to put the effort into finding it themselves. in other words, they transferred the responsibility to find the answer to me. all i can say in this instance is that the records are what they are and i cannot change any history or records. there are imperfections in the records and i regret this but researchers are limited to the records that remain.

then i found that there was a great need for people to know about native genealogy.

i answer genealogical inquiries in other venues, some related more specifically to my family on other venues. this is something that i can do.

history is history and i can change none of that. lots of things occurred well before i was born. there are many things that i regret, but i didn’t have any part in them – for instance, i don’t particularly like the inquisition, the transition to industrialization was pretty messy and i don’t like colonialization generally. i see that a great many decisions were made about primitive peoples that were superimposed from cultural ideas that were held at the time by the dominant culture. i saw that primitive peoples had a difficulty in interfacing with the dominant culture and were at an extreme disadvantage.

mary Sanders mary Sanders

posted on September 30, 2012

My Dearest Susznne, I thoroughly appreciate your expertise in all of this.
1 thing I do know is that my Grandma Maggie Myrtle Brown Goodman was a full blood indian.
Now whether Blackfoot, Cherokee, Choctaw, or what tribe she was with…. I do know that she was Indian. I also know that my Granddad Cassie Liggie, Goodman was a full blood indian cause I know that they were from the Oklahoma territory and both lived in that areas for a lot of years. My Grandma was indian and because while she was alive she told me many stories of how she moved from the indian territory and that her family was removed because of the location was taken over by the white people. My grandma and grandpa lived the life. My Mom was 1/2 indian of two tribes.
Cherokee and Choctaw. My Dad was also 1/4 Cherokee, as was his Dad William E. Johnson.
I never knew either of them but my Dad told me the stories of how his family was and did live on or near the Oklahoma indian territory in fact he spoke of how he was born there along with him brothers and one of his sisters.

You may know a lot about the movement of the indians and the history. I am not asking for you to do anything but to assist me in locating
my Heritage. I know that my grandparents came from the (ie) Blackfoot, Cherokee, choctaw, and even the Creek indians. I donot know what indian tribe was in Texas, I do know that my Dad was from the Cherokee Tribe, and my mom was from the cherokee, Choctaw,Blackfoot tribe.
I know that my Fathers (DAD) William was a Cherokee at least 1/2 and I am not interested in striking out at anyone, I know that things take time. I also know that MY God is greater than what you are telling me in regard to helping me to find this and to save my grandchildren that are about to be adopted to people that are not Indians. I know that MY Jesus is Greater than your telling me all about the time it will take. My Jesus is greater than that.
Now I must tell you that I know that Jesus wants me to keep looking even if you don’t think that it is going to benefit my cause.
My Grandchildren are going to lose if I GIVE UP AND QUIT! If you donot wish to help me on this I can understand.
Is there anyone I can ask for help on this??
I donot know exactly what I am doing, but when I prayed My Jesus sent you to answer my concerns. That is all I know.
I do realize that your time is valuable.
MY TIME IS VALUABLE. BUT I AM DOING WHAT I
CAN TO LOCATE OUR INDIAN HERITAGE SO THAT MY GRANDCHILDREN CAN AND WILL BE PROTECTED WITH THE INDIAN TRIBE. IF I HAVE TO HAVE A DNA TEST DONE I WILL TAKE ONE IF THAT IS WHAT IT TAKES TO ESTABLISH MY INHERITANCE!
MS Suzanne, If you are going to knock me down and continue to discourage me, then I donot need that kind of help.
I guess what i am saying is that I appreciate
all that you have done, so my cause is not for
the faint at heart. MY Jesus will show me the way, I have to Trust in What Jesus has done this far. I know that the William E. Johnson that I submitted to you is 1/2 Cherokee and that he was signed up, I also know that my Grandma Maggie Myrtle Goodmans Mom was 1/2 Choctaw cause my Grandma Maggie was 1/2 Cherokee and 1/4 choctaw.
Please forgive me if I have upset you.
I am not expecting you to understand.
Thanks Love in Jesus
Pastor Mary