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Choctaw vs Cherokee heritage

Betty R. Walker Betty R. Walker

posted on March 31, 2011 and updated on March 31, 2011

My grandfather James Franklin White, 2/21/1869 was married to Mary Viola Brown 1/2/1890. Their parents were Joseph Martin Jackson White, 6/23-1842 and Miranda Clementine Puckett, 1850, d 1880, He may have been born in Atoka County, OK. In 1850 some records show they lived in Tishimingo County, MS. The Pucketts came from Rutherford, TN.
I know my grandfather Jim was part Indian,he had all the features and most of their 11 children had dark olive skin, black hair and some were black eyed and some blue, grandmother was fair skinned and blue eyed.
Any help will be deeply appreciated. We’d just like to know which tribe they really were from, we have some who say Cherokee and some Choctaw.

suzanne hamlet shatto suzanne hamlet shatto

posted on March 31, 2011

joseph martin jackson white b. 6/23/1842 m. miranda clementine puckett b. 1850? d. 1880
james franklin white b. 2/21/1869 m. mary viola brown

these are fairly exact dates for this time period. you have mentioned some locations. no children for joseph martin jackson white or miranda clementine puckett.

generally, native affiliation can be established if you have a direct ancestor that applied for enrollment in a tribe, usually 1896-1906 for the oklahoma tribes. sometimes you might find a land record that was given in lieu of tribal enrollment 1830-1880 to the head of household. and geographic location can be key to finding a tribal affiliation.

i don’t see james franklin white on the dawes roll. he would have been about 31 years old, but all james white tribe records are either parents of children who have married or under 26 years old or over 40 years old. i was hoping to find one that would have been about 31 years old. so he and mary viola brown are probably not on the dawes roll. you can check by looking at the family of each listing, click on the # in the card column.
http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/finalroll.php
this is a text search and partial names are ok.

on rootsweb worldconnect, this family tree is posted:
The History of The Heath Family
Entries: 137224 Updated: 2011-02-01 05:55:41 UTC (Tue) Contact: Patricia
The history of The Heath, Mack, Massey, Morgan, Simmermon, Sledge, Laudenslager (Lautenschlager), Knauss, Koch and more.
Index | Descendancy | Register | Public Profile | Add Post-em | View Post-em (1)

  1. ID: I29491 View Post-em!
  2. Name: James Franklin WHITE
  3. Sex: M
  4. Birth: 21 FEB 1869 in Ripley,Tippah Co.,MS
  5. Death: 29 SEP 1959
  6. Burial: Wiers Chapel Cemetery,Tippah Co.,MS
  7. Note:
SOURCES: Steven RUTHERFORD (descendant) Mary WHITE DUNHAM (descendant)
  1. Change Date: 13 JAN 2010 at 15:02:04

HintsAncestry Hints for James Franklin WHITE

4 possible matches found on Ancestry.com Ancestry.com

Marriage 1 Mary Viola BROWN

  • Note: _STATMARRIED

Children

1. Has No Children Donna Lou Ella WHITE b: 29 OCT 1912 in Tippah Co.,MS

i note that james franklin white was alive at the time social security came into effect 1/1/1937 and would have a social security application on file and he would have submitted a birth certificate or a delayed birth certificate to prove his age. if you ask for his birth certificate, you have to also ask for the delayed birth certificate, as these documents tend to be recorded in chronological order.

a resource that might be helpful would be the mississippi state archives.
http://mdah.state.ms.us/

tribes by location, with a map.
http://www.native-languages.org/mississippi.htm
http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/mississippi/index.htm
http://www.aaanativearts.com/tribes-by-states/mississippi_tribes.htm

http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/tennessee/index.htm
http://www.native-languages.org/states.htm
http://www.native-languages.org/tennessee.htm
with a map

tennessee state archives.
http://www.state.tn.us/tsla/

there are several possible land records, under ancestry.com mississippi land records. but you will have to match the physical land description with the census record location.

he wasn’t old enough to be in the civil war but his father might have been in it. if there is a military pension record, this would contain genealogical information and was probably prepared by an attorney.

1870 United States Federal Census
about J F White
Name: J F White
Birth Year: abt 1869
Age in 1870: 1
Birthplace: Mississippi
Home in 1870: Township 4 Range 3, Tippah, Mississippi
Race: White
Gender: Male
Value of real estate: View image
Household Members:
Name Age
J N White 27
Maranda White 20
S E White 4
J F White 1
Source Citation: Year: 1870; Census Place: Township 4 Range 3, Tippah, Mississippi; Roll: M593_750; Page: 139B; Image: 286; Family History Library Film: 552249.

Mississippi Marriages, 1776-1935
about J. F. White
Name: J. F. White
Spouse: M. V Brown
Marriage Date: 7 Jan 1890
County: Benton
joseph was b. GA and miranda was b. MS.

U.S. Civil War Soldiers, 1861-1865
about J.M.J. White
Name: J.M.J. White
Side: Confederate
Regiment State/Origin: Mississippi
Regiment Name: 26 Mississippi Infantry
Regiment Name Expanded: 26th Regiment, Mississippi Infantry
Company: B
Rank In: Private
Rank In Expanded: Private
Rank Out: Private
Rank Out Expanded: Private
Film Number: M232 roll 43
http://www.itd.nps.gov/cwss/
click on the unit # to see the unit history, if available.

1860 United States Federal Census
about Joseph White
Name: Joseph White
Age in 1860: 18
Birth Year: abt 1842
Birthplace: Georgia
Home in 1860: Tishomingo, Mississippi
Gender: Male
Post Office: Rienzi
Value of real estate: View image
Household Members:
Name Age
Saml White 52
Faedy White 40
Clark White 19
Joseph White 18
Wright White 16
Franklin White 14
Source Citation: Year: 1860; Census Place: , Tishomingo, Mississippi; Roll: M653_593; Page: 146; Image: 150; Family History Library Film: 803593.
samuel and faedy were b. GA
franklin was b. MS but the rest of the family was b. GA

Georgia Marriages, 1699-1944
about Fatery Smith
Name: Fatery Smith
Spouse: Samuel White
Marriage Date: 21 Apr 1836
County: Franklin
State: Georgia

1850 United States Federal Census
about Joseph M White
Name: Joseph M White
Age: 8
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1842
Birth Place: Georgia
Gender: Male
Home in 1850 (City,County,State): Southern Division, Tishomingo, Mississippi
Family Number: 342
Household Members:
Name Age
Samuel White 42
Fada White 30
Edmond S White 12
Smith W White 11
Sure C White 9
Joseph M White 8
James M White 6
Israel R White 5
Francis F White 4
Mary J White 1
Source Citation: Year: 1850; Census Place: Southern Division, Tishomingo, Mississippi; Roll: M432_382; Page: 111B; Image: 232.

Source Citation: Year: 1840; Census Place: District 267, Franklin, Georgia; Roll: 41; Page: 314; Image: 655; Family History Library Film: 0007043.

1880 United States Federal Census
about J.M.J. White
Name: J.M.J. White
Home in 1880: Beat 3, Benton, Mississippi
Age: 37
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1843
Birthplace: Georgia
Relation to Head of Household: Self (Head)
Father’s birthplace: Georgia
Mother’s birthplace: Georgia
Neighbors: View others on page
Occupation: Farming
Marital Status: Widower
Race: White
Gender: Male
Cannot read/write:

Blind:

Deaf and dumb:

Otherwise disabled:

Idiotic or insane:

View image
Household Members:
Name Age
J.M.J. White 37
Francis E. White 14
James F. White 11
Joseph L. White 9
Mary J. White 6
John M. White 4

1900 United States Federal Census
about Joseph White
Name: Joseph White
Home in 1900: Justice Precinct 5, Bell, Texas
[Bell, Texas]
Age: 57
Birth Date: Jun 1842
Birthplace: Georgia
Race: White
Gender: Male
Relationship to head-of-house: Head
Father’s Birthplace: Georgia
Mother’s Birthplace: Georgia
Spouse’s Name: Lizzie White
Marriage Year: 1900
Marital Status: Married
Years Married: 0
Occupation: View on Image
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Joseph White 57
Lizzie White 33
Charlie S White 13
Source Citation: Year: 1900; Census Place: Justice Precinct 5, Bell, Texas; Roll: T623_1610; Page: 2B; Enumeration District: 25.

1900 United States Federal Census
about James F White
Name: James F White
Home in 1900: Beat 3, Benton, Mississippi
[Benton, Mississippi]
Age: 31
Birth Date: Feb 1869
Birthplace: Mississippi
Race: White
Gender: Male
Relationship to head-of-house: Head
Father’s Birthplace: Mississippi
Mother’s Birthplace: Mississippi
Spouse’s Name: Mary V White
Marriage Year: 1890
Marital Status: Married
Years Married: 10
Occupation: View on Image
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
James F White 31
Mary V White 26
Effie L White 8
Nejean W White 6
Mary G White 4
Jessie H White 2
Source Citation: Year: 1900; Census Place: Beat 3, Benton, Mississippi; Roll: T623_801; Page: 1A; Enumeration District: 6.

1910 United States Federal Census
about James F White
Name: James F White
Age in 1910: 41
Estimated Birth Year: 1869
Birthplace: Mississippi
Relation to Head of House: Head
[Self (Head)]
Father’s Birth Place: Mississippi
Mother’s Birth Place: Mississippi
Spouse’s Name: Mary V White
Home in 1910: Beat 3, Benton, Mississippi
Marital Status: Married
Race: White
Gender: Male
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
James F White 41
Mary V White 36
Elise L White 18
Milburn White 16
Nora W White 14
Horace M White 12
Ben G White 10
Ada White 7
Easter H White 4
Annie P White 6/12
0
Source Citation: Year: 1910; Census Place: Beat 3, Benton, Mississippi; Roll: T624_731; Page: 11A; Enumeration District: 0006; Image: 1054; FHL Number: 1374744.

1930 United States Federal Census
about James F White
Name: James F White
Home in 1930: Beat 2, Tippah, Mississippi
View Map
Age: 61
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1869
Birthplace: Mississippi
Relation to Head of House: Head
Spouse’s Name: Mary V White
Race: White
Occupation:

Education:

Military Service:

Rent/home value:

Age at first marriage:

Parents’ birthplace:

View image
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
James F White 61
Mary V White 56
Donnie White 18
Source Citation: Year: 1930; Census Place: Beat 2, Tippah, Mississippi; Roll: 1167; Page: 26A; Enumeration District: 6; Image: 404.0.

genealogists use names, dates, locations, children and spouses to match records. if you have a common surname, you need to give more information rather than less. if you post about women, it is helpful to include the maiden name and the married name and designate which one is the maiden name.

start with what you know, gather documentation, then you can go backward in time. so get your birth certificate, your parents’ birth certificates and marriage license and then you can start on your grandparents. if someone passed away after 1/1/1937, they probably have a social security application on file. if you ask a government for a birth certificate, and they were born before 1929, they might have sumitted a delayed birth certificate. death certificates, cemetery information and obituaries are helpful. you can usually get a copy of an obituary, newspaper mentions such as birth of a child or marriage, through the interlibrary loan program – see your local public library for this. i usually start with the death and work toward the person’s birth. military records and pension records can be helpful. census records can tell you where they were at particular times. the census records up to 1930 are available, although the 1890 census was largely destroyed. the 1940 census will be public information in 2012.

first of all, heritage and tribal enrollment are two different things. many times natives didn’t apply for enrollment because 1) they didn’t qualify, 2) they were philosophically opposed to enrollment, 3) they didn’t have documentation, or 4) they were mississippi choctaw and their ancestor had accepted land or benefits in lieu of tribal enrollment.

the dawes roll was taken 1896-1906, so you should trace your ancestors down to that time period. mostly, they had to be living in oklahoma by that time and agree to live there permanently.

2 ways to search:
http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/finalroll.php
this will let you enter partial names to get card#. click on the card# in the card column and you can see other names in that family.
other resources on the left and at the bottom of this webpage. native census records and databases are especially useful.

http://www.okhistory.org/research/dawes/index.php
this will give you card# (family group) and enrollment #. they have some native marriage records too. other oklahoma records listed at left.
if the name is common, you may find too many possible records.

the tribe has an excellent information to help you. it is found under genealogy advocacy.
http://choctawnation.com/services/departments/community-services/

NARA http://www.archives.gov/ federal records repository. the fort worth, TX office has archives for oklahoma and texas tribes. atlanta/morrow office has archives for the southwest tribes. many offices have microfilmed records for several tribes. note that this web address has changed recently from nara.gov.

mississippi choctaw and choctaw tribe explained here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choctaw_Trail_of_Tears

http://www.choctaw.org/

jena choctaw tribe in louisiana:
http://www.jenachoctaw.org/

MOWA tribe
http://encyclopediaofalabama.org/face/Article.jsp?id=h-1368
http://www.uab.edu/uabmagazine/2009/july/losttribe
http://www.native-american-online.org/MOWA-Choctaw.htm
MOWA Band Of Choctaws Wilford Taylor 1080 Red Fox Road Mount Vernon, AL 36560 (251) 829-5500. E-Mail: chieftaylor@mowachoctaw.com

other choctaw tribes: http://www.aaanativearts.com/choctaw-indians/index.html

chickasaw historical society 22
Historic Preservation and
Repatriation Office
Phone: (580) 272-5325
Fax: (580) 272-5327
2020 E. Arlington, Suite 4, Ada, OK 74820
send mail to: P.O. Box 1548, Ada, OK 74821

chickasaw tribe
Chickasaw Nation Headquarters
520 East Arlington, Ada, OK 74820
Phone (580) 436-2603
Mailing address: P.O. Box 1548, Ada, OK 74821
http://www.chickasaw.net/index.htm

chickasaw genealogy archive center 23
Tribal Library
Phone: (580) 310-6477
Fax: (580) 559-0773
1003 Chamber Loop, Ada, OK 74820
send mail to: P.O. Box 1548, Ada, OK 74821

http://www.okhistory.org/
oklahoma historical society

texas tribes
http://www.native-languages.org/texas.htm
http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/texas/index.htm
http://www.texasindians.com/
http://www.texasindians.com/
http://www.lsjunction.com/places/indians.htm

oklahoma tribes:
http://500nations.com/Oklahoma_Tribes.asp
http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/oklahoma/index.htm
http://www.cowboy.net/native/tribes.html

some links for the choctaw.
http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/tribes/choctaw/index.htm
i looked at the land records and those need a lot of work. i have no information about whether or when they will improve some of these categories.

types of records available for native americans:
pages 366-369 in particular although the entire native american chapter is helpful.
The Genealogist’s Companion and Sourcebook:
Guide to the Resources You Need for Unpuzzling Your Past
Emily Anne Croom
you can ask for these particular pages from your local public library. if they don’t have the book, you can get the pages through the interlibrary loan program.
native american records are discussed in pages 352-386.

Tracing ancestors among the Five Civilized Tribes: Southeastern Indians …
By Rachal Mills Lennon
this book could be accessed through the interlibary loan program also.

always find the state archives. some records are online, some records are not. but many times you can find a record not found in other places. you want to see also about newspaper mentions for obituaries, births, marriages in particular.

check courts for probate, civil and criminal cases, marriage records.

if your ancestors lived on a reservation, they might not appear on a federal census because they were not taxed.
http://www.okgenweb.org/~okgarvin/kinard/1860index.htm
1860 census, indian territory.

this book is a good read about the dawes roll and how they implemented it.
The Dawes Commission and the allotment of the Five Civilized Tribes, 1893-1914
By Kent Carter

good advice about native research:
http://jenniferhsrn2.homestead.com/research2.html

if your relatives came from a different geographic location or belonged to a different tribe, try searching google for the state and tribes. you might find a contact for a state-recognized tribe or a federal recognized tribe.

i have collected many resources over the years. if you want to write to me, shamlet76@gmail.com and request the choctaw resource list, i will be glad to send it to you.

i am just a volunteer that wants to empower people to learn how to do genealogy.

suzanne hamlet shatto