Choctaw Nation of Oklahoma

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CDIB

MMW MMW

posted on November 4, 2010 and updated on November 4, 2010

Tell me if I’m sick or if I have a new angle on getting a CDIB?

If I can find my great-great grandfather’s enrollment card, can I exhume all of my ancestors and get DNA test proving they are all my great-great grandfather, great grandmother, grandmother and father and use the DNA test to get my CDIB?

There’s no record of my great grandmother having ever existed. If I get to Texas, I can try harder to find a record. I hate to dig up my grandmother though. She had a hard life and needs to rest in peace. But, I’m sure she’d love to see me again.

I’m sure they wouldn’t mind. My father would be for and against. Religiously speaking he might take issue. I don’t know. But, he always wanted that tribal enrollment card that he said was stolen. He visualized living on the reservation in some green hills smoking pot. I know y’all wouldn’t be down with that from what I see with the tribal offices trying to sober people up, but that is another discussion. And, there’s no reservation. But, that was what he thought. He hung out with the Navajo a little. The were drinking, maybe, doing some drugs. Who knows? I wasn’t there.

I might try some peyote for spiritual reasons if I ever find myself in Arizona, but with my medical conditons I don’t do drugs, except prescription. I might drink a couple drinks at karaoke but that’s about it. My family were all tea-tottlers.

suzanne hamlet shatto suzanne hamlet shatto

posted on November 4, 2010

this is not how people get enrolled. in order to enroll, you need to be directly descended from an original enrollee that was on the dawes roll and accepted into the tribe.

so you have to do your genealogy. get your birth certificate, your parents’ birth certificates and marriage license and then you can go backward in time to your grandparents.

i find that it is easier to get a death certificate, an obituary,, or a cemetery record to guide you.

dates of birth, dates of death, dates of marriage, along with the locations will be helpful. the name of the spouse, the names of the children and birthdates/locations will help.

if you get stuck, you can get a copy of a deceased relative’s social security application, if they were alive after 1/1/1937. this can guide you to documents, name locations and dates. their parents’ names were often on those documents.

you can get an obituary through interlibrary loan. see your local library for looking at historical newspapers.

genealogists use names, dates, locations, children and spouses to match records. if you have a common surname, you need to give more information rather than less. if you post about women, it is helpful to include the maiden name and the married name and designate which one is the maiden name.

first of all, heritage and tribal enrollment are two different things. many times natives didn’t apply for enrollment because 1) they didn’t qualify, 2) they were philosophically opposed to enrollment, 3) they didn’t have documentation, or 4) they were mississippi choctaw and their ancestor had accepted land or benefits in lieu of tribal enrollment.

the dawes roll was taken 1896-1906, so you should trace your ancestors down to that time period. mostly, they had to be living in oklahoma by that time and agree to live there permanently.

2 ways to search:
http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/finalroll.php
this will let you enter partial names to get card#. click on the card# in the card column and you can see other names in that family.
other resources on the left and at the bottom of this webpage. native census records and databases are especially useful.

http://www.okhistory.org/research/dawes/index.php
this will give you card# (family group) and enrollment #. they have some native marriage records too. other oklahoma records listed at left.
if the name is common, you may find too many possible records.

the tribe has an excellent information to help you. it is found under genealogy advocacy.
http://choctawnation.com/services/departments/community-services/

mississippi choctaw and choctaw tribe explained here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choctaw_Trail_of_Tears

http://www.choctaw.org/

jena choctaw tribe in louisiana:
http://www.jenachoctaw.org/

MOWA tribe
http://encyclopediaofalabama.org/face/Article.jsp?id=h-1368
http://www.uab.edu/uabmagazine/2009/july/losttribe
http://www.native-american-online.org/MOWA-Choctaw.htm
MOWA Band Of Choctaws Wilford Taylor 1080 Red Fox Road Mount Vernon, AL 36560 (251) 829-5500. E-Mail: chieftaylor@mowachoctaw.com

texas tribes
http://www.native-languages.org/texas.htm
http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/texas/index.htm
http://www.texasindians.com/
http://www.texasindians.com/
http://www.lsjunction.com/places/indians.htm

oklahoma tribes:
http://500nations.com/Oklahoma_Tribes.asp
http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/oklahoma/index.htm
http://www.cowboy.net/native/tribes.html

some links for the choctaw.
http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/tribes/choctaw/index.htm
i looked at the land records and those need a lot of work. i have no information about whether or when they will improve some of these categories.

types of records available for native americans:
pages 366-369 in particular although the entire native american chapter is helpful.
The Genealogist’s Companion and Sourcebook:
Guide to the Resources You Need for Unpuzzling Your Past
Emily Anne Croom
you can ask for these particular pages from your local public library. if they don’t have the book, you can get the pages through the interlibrary loan program.
native american records are discussed in pages 352-386.

Tracing ancestors among the Five Civilized Tribes: Southeastern Indians …
By Rachal Mills Lennon
this book could be accessed through the interlibary loan program also.

always find the state archives. some records are online, some records are not. but many times you can find a record not found in other places. you want to see also about newspaper mentions for obituaries, births, marriages in particular.

check courts for probate, civil and criminal cases, marriage records.

if your ancestors lived on a reservation, they might not appear on a federal census because they were not taxed.
http://www.okgenweb.org/~okgarvin/kinard/1860index.htm
1860 census, indian territory.

this book is a good read about the dawes roll and how they implemented it.
The Dawes Commission and the allotment of the Five Civilized Tribes, 1893-1914
By Kent Carter

good advice about native research:
http://jenniferhsrn2.homestead.com/research2.html

if your relatives came from a different geographic location or belonged to a different tribe, try searching google for the state and tribes. you might find a contact for a state-recognized tribe or a federal recognized tribe.

i have collected many resources over the years. if you want to write to me, shamlet76@gmail.com and request the choctaw resource list, i will be glad to send it to you.

i am just a volunteer that wants to empower people to learn how to do genealogy.

suzanne hamlet shatto

MMW MMW

posted on November 6, 2010 and updated on November 6, 2010

I know that’s not how you get enrolled. I mean if my great-great grandfather has an Dawes enrollment #, and no certificate existed for my great-grandmother, I could substitute DNA records.

Why not?

However, if I find an enrollment card it will probably be from one of the older enrollments, not Dawes.

Has anyone ever tried to use DNA with the agency that approves the CDIBs?

Why can’t I be the first?

It’s just an idea.

I know how the process works already.

There is zero records available for my great-grandmother. No birth, no death, no marriage, no cemetary, no social security. Nothing. She died during childbirth.

If I ever get to Texas, I can try to do a more thorough search.

The old mortician did not keep records. The country courthouse burned down numerous times.

What does a person do in this case????

DNA.

I know where all the graves are. And, they are all clearly marked.

Now from what I understand Choctaw used to take the flesh off the bones in old traditions with long fingernails. I don’t think it would be a problem if I borrowed a little dna. They don’t need it anymore, anyway.

Don’t get all bent out of shape with me.

And, I don’t need a lot of converted people to another religion to bust my chops.

I’m thinking about converting to Judaism, myself. I’m more of an Old Testament type of person. I think Jesus had some good ideas. But, worshipping any one other than God is not kosher in my book. And, I’m not buying the whole Holy Trinity theory, personally. But, since I’m only “Jewish” on my father’s side, I’d probably go with a Reformed Synogague. But, I think of myself as more of a Consertative. ;-)

Of course, the Universal Society of Friends or Quakers are more democratic in their religious practice of allowing people their right to individual spirituality and no paid clergy. Half the country used to be Quaker at one time from what I hear. The religion is dying in NYC. Theoretically, I like the idea. But, my daughter’s whereabouts were unknown in the childcare and she came out of the bathroom with “a father bringing his daughter to the bathroom”. So, I stopped going. Plus, the practice of allowing anyone, even lesbians, to touch during Meeting is unacceptable to me, too.

It’s just lonely out here being the only person you know of your race. I did meet one guy that said he was part Choctaw, but he chose a lifestyle of drugs and partying with all the wrong people.

He seemed like he had potential, but he was terribly misguided.

I don’t like being the only Choctaw I know other than my own family members. The worst part my 1/2 uncle and 1/2 1st cousin think we are Cherokee. I’m like what? Where on Earth did y’all get that?

And, the good ones of us are the sick. Isn’t that ironic.

It seems like the rotten apples get the health.

Anyway, I’m about to start medications. So, I’ll be the good one, not as sick anymore.

:-)

I hope a little health doesn’t turn me into a bad person.

Anyway, I know of one Choctaw here in NYC. I’m going to try calling him on Monday. He’ll probably be “Why is she calling me? Because I’m Choctaw?”

I hope he doesn’t shut me down. I’m going to feel super stupid calling him.

Besides, I don’t need a CDIB to know who I am. I already get Social Security Disability. The VESID office will help me get a part-time job. But, I’m sure I can get better services as a freedman. But, I could use a little casino money and help with housing. But, I’m also very capable. So, I’m sure I’ll figure something out and get by just fine. I hope to get my families property back. That’s really the only place I want to live. I certainly don’t want to have to brave tornados in modular housing.

I guess illness just has me wanting to settle down somewhere. I’m middle-aged now. But, the with medical help I’m about to get I may feel better.

I don’t know why I want a CDIB. Maybe, I want to retain my right to smoke tobacco.

I saw a medical posting about smoking contributing to ADHD. Now, that’s a load of horse hockey. It’s just another bad medical wool and smoke trick to try to get mother’s to quit smoking.

I’ve always like Grocho Marx quote “I wouldn’t want to belong to a club that would have me as a member.”

But, Choctaw didn’t establish the rules or the members of the tribe or did they.

Maybe, there was a game plan to sending us off or did some of us run away.

What happened on the Trail of Tears? Does anyone really know? I don’t.

But, if it was a conquor and divide stategy. Wow. How is that supposed to work?

I know there’s something unique about Choctaw. Maybe, my family was too prideful about being Choctaw?

Anyway, I’m going to write a book about what it’s like to be out here.

Believe me. It’s no cup of tea.

suzanne hamlet shatto suzanne hamlet shatto

posted on November 7, 2010

if your family was in texas, they probably didn’t go on the trail of tears in the late 1830’s. the trail of tears didn’t go through texas. they probably left the reservation unofficially. your family might have received a land grant because they wanted to terminate their relationship with the tribe, and then moved. there is no shame in that. but that might explain why your family wasn’t enrolled in the choctaw tribe in oklahoma. enrollment was controversial.

reading your post, you are trying to go too far back to find your ancestors.

and the choctaw tribe did establish the rules for the tribe in oklahoma. all tribes made rules. they had to figure out who was eligible to enroll and who wasn’t.

there is information in my previous post. there were tribes in texas.

i am sorry if you are having a hard time. i am not native but i answer inquiries on the choctaw board because i have experience in native genealogy and i think this is a good use of my time/effort.

i don’t know of any tribe that uses DNA to establish anything. the tribes were associated bands of natives, not one single entity. if you want more resources, more historical information, write me and i will send you a list of resources.

MMW MMW

posted on November 10, 2010 and updated on November 10, 2010

My family never wanted to terminate a relationship with the tribe from what I know. They were very proud to be Choctaw. My great-great grandfather was smuggled between two mattresses by slaves from Mississippi to Texas. I do not, however, know the reason.

Oh. I thought the Dawes Commission decided who was enrolled in the tribe and who wasn’t.

You’re probably right. It’s probably a lost cause. But, you don’t know my family. We are hard-headed. :-) This was my father’s dream. He passed away a year ago May. If there’s anything I could do to make it come true, I would. But, there’s probably nothing a can do. That won’t stop me from some day visiting the Federal Archives looking for a card. The Federal Archives are about 15 minutes from my apt. in NYC.

Why do so many things in life have to be so difficult?

Russell Huffer Russell Huffer

posted on November 24, 2010

Digging up one of your past relatives would be going against the Choctaws. It is beyond disrespectful to dig up a grave in the Native American culture and is not taken lightly too as seen in the 60’s and early 70’s. I feel that you are wanting your CDIB for the wrong reasons. The Choctaw Nation has a specific vision that needs to be embraced as honored.

MMW MMW

posted on November 27, 2010 and updated on November 27, 2010

Fine. But, what are the right and wrong reasons for wanting a CDIB, since you want to go there?

Sure there are a few minor benefits to a CDIB like an educational allowance for extracurricular activities for the kids, mine is 4 1/2, and job search assistance through American Indian Community House here in NYC, but that’s not my primary motivation. I wouldn’t bust my butt trying to obtain documentation for a few minor benefits.

What is that vision that you elude to?

Clydene Clydene

posted on January 25, 2011

MMW:

Susanne is correct – digging up ancestors is no way to get your enrollment and she has given you excellent advice to help you with your genealogical search. You could also hire a professional genealogist but make sure they are experienced in NA research.

About your question regarding the DNA. If you are a male can give a y-DNA sample that will only give you the male side of your family and not necessarily give you any specific Tribe. However, if these results come back as Anglo, you are not NA. If you are a female, make sure you take the Autosomal DNA Test that will give you what percentage NA you are. This could be a start or prove or disprove NA Blood. However, even if your DNA proves you are NA Indian, you still have to document yourself and your ancestors each generation back to an original enrollee to obtain a CDIB Enrollment Card.

And, as Susanne stated, there are many Native Americans (North American Indians) who are not enrolled and can never be enrolled because the Federal Government set the enrollment guidelines and it would take an Act of Congress to get these laws changed.

I am in the same boat and, yes, I know your frustration but that’s life. Because you are not enrolled, this does not make you any less Native American. Clydene

Samantha Taylor Samantha Taylor

posted on February 26, 2011

Hello, Halito
My name is Sam related to the Coils. I have recently found out most my family is Choctaw and lived on the Choctaw Reservation. Im so proud and happy, now my question is what can I do now, I would love to be part of the Community or something. Anything you can tell me I would appreciate very much.

Sam Coil

suzanne hamlet shatto suzanne hamlet shatto

posted on February 26, 2011

first of all, you will want to put your inquiry on the genealogy forum using it’s own thread. i just stumbled across this inquiry by accident. there might be others who would like to post on a thread about your ancestors and information that they have found, but if they don’t see the thread, they will not be able to do that.

you should have names (not just a surname), spouse, children, dates and locations of deceased relatives. we use this information to match records.

genealogists use names, dates, locations, children and spouses to match records. if you have a common surname, you need to give more information rather than less. if you post about women, it is helpful to include the maiden name and the married name and designate which one is the maiden name.

start with what you know, gather documentation, then you can go backward in time. so get your birth certificate, your parents’ birth certificates and marriage license and then you can start on your grandparents. if someone passed away after 1/1/1937, they probably have a social security application on file. if you ask a government for a birth certificate, and they were born before 1929, they might have sumitted a delayed birth certificate. death certificates, cemetery information and obituaries are helpful. you can usually get a copy of an obituary, newspaper mentions such as birth of a child or marriage, through the interlibrary loan program – see your local public library for this. i usually start with the death and work toward the person’s birth. military records and pension records can be helpful. census records can tell you where they were at particular times. the census records up to 1930 are available, although the 1890 census was largely destroyed. the 1940 census will be public information in 2012.

first of all, heritage and tribal enrollment are two different things. many times natives didn’t apply for enrollment because 1) they didn’t qualify, 2) they were philosophically opposed to enrollment, 3) they didn’t have documentation, or 4) they were mississippi choctaw and their ancestor had accepted land or benefits in lieu of tribal enrollment.

the dawes roll was taken 1896-1906, so you should trace your ancestors down to that time period. mostly, they had to be living in oklahoma by that time and agree to live there permanently.

2 ways to search:
http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/finalroll.php
this will let you enter partial names to get card#. click on the card# in the card column and you can see other names in that family.
other resources on the left and at the bottom of this webpage. native census records and databases are especially useful.

http://www.okhistory.org/research/dawes/index.php
this will give you card# (family group) and enrollment #. they have some native marriage records too. other oklahoma records listed at left.
if the name is common, you may find too many possible records.

the tribe has an excellent information to help you. it is found under genealogy advocacy.
http://choctawnation.com/services/departments/community-services/

mississippi choctaw and choctaw tribe explained here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choctaw_Trail_of_Tears

http://www.choctaw.org/

jena choctaw tribe in louisiana:
http://www.jenachoctaw.org/

MOWA tribe
http://encyclopediaofalabama.org/face/Article.jsp?id=h-1368
http://www.uab.edu/uabmagazine/2009/july/losttribe
http://www.native-american-online.org/MOWA-Choctaw.htm
MOWA Band Of Choctaws Wilford Taylor 1080 Red Fox Road Mount Vernon, AL 36560 (251) 829-5500. E-Mail: chieftaylor@mowachoctaw.com

other choctaw tribes: http://www.aaanativearts.com/choctaw-indians/index.html

texas tribes
http://www.native-languages.org/texas.htm
http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/texas/index.htm
http://www.texasindians.com/
http://www.texasindians.com/
http://www.lsjunction.com/places/indians.htm

oklahoma tribes:
http://500nations.com/Oklahoma_Tribes.asp
http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/oklahoma/index.htm
http://www.cowboy.net/native/tribes.html

some links for the choctaw.
http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/tribes/choctaw/index.htm
i looked at the land records and those need a lot of work. i have no information about whether or when they will improve some of these categories.

types of records available for native americans:
pages 366-369 in particular although the entire native american chapter is helpful.
The Genealogist’s Companion and Sourcebook:
Guide to the Resources You Need for Unpuzzling Your Past
Emily Anne Croom
you can ask for these particular pages from your local public library. if they don’t have the book, you can get the pages through the interlibrary loan program.
native american records are discussed in pages 352-386.

Tracing ancestors among the Five Civilized Tribes: Southeastern Indians …
By Rachal Mills Lennon
this book could be accessed through the interlibary loan program also.

always find the state archives. some records are online, some records are not. but many times you can find a record not found in other places. you want to see also about newspaper mentions for obituaries, births, marriages in particular.

check courts for probate, civil and criminal cases, marriage records.

if your ancestors lived on a reservation, they might not appear on a federal census because they were not taxed.
http://www.okgenweb.org/~okgarvin/kinard/1860index.htm
1860 census, indian territory.

this book is a good read about the dawes roll and how they implemented it.
The Dawes Commission and the allotment of the Five Civilized Tribes, 1893-1914
By Kent Carter

good advice about native research:
http://jenniferhsrn2.homestead.com/research2.html

if your relatives came from a different geographic location or belonged to a different tribe, try searching google for the state and tribes. you might find a contact for a state-recognized tribe or a federal recognized tribe.

i have collected many resources over the years. if you want to write to me, shamlet76@gmail.com and request the choctaw resource list, i will be glad to send it to you.

i am just a volunteer that wants to empower people to learn how to do genealogy.

suzanne hamlet shatto

Vickie Coffey Stokes Vickie Coffey Stokes

posted on August 12, 2011

MMW,
What is the family name you r researching, maybe I can help. dont get discouraged.